Posted by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 7:08am Msg #246051
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Reply by sue_pa on 5/3/08 7:29am Msg #246053
my comment is the same as the other day
you want experience? You were quick to tell me that the $50 isn't your fee. So, today you've juggled that $50 up by $5 and lowered the 'standard' print fee by $5. Again, you want experience? The ones who jump at 'pay in 2 weeks' are new, aren't working steadily at this business, or have made poor customer choices in the past. If you keep me within 15 miles of my office, I basically will receive 1 or 2 orders a year from you. 15,000 title companies have jumped onto your company - a company that as of a few days ago didn't even have their web site up to date within what, I believe you said 7 years?
Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 7:52am Msg #246062
Re: my comment is the same as the other day
Since I took over in Jan., I've had to prioritize my tasks. The company that designed the website 7 years ago is no longer in business. It made no business sense to pay to have the website changed back then knowing it would have to change again in May because of the integration. I am constantly reading about notaries complaining about having to wait 30, 60, even 90 days to get paid. I don't care when the title companies pay me, that is my problem not yours. I pay you in 2 weeks. Mistakes are made, we are only human. If a notary doesn't get their check within 3 weeks, they can call me directly. I will not blow you off like other companies do. Title companies try to stiff you if you spend time at a signing and it doesn't sign. I pay you. As far as the volume issue, here are two examples. One company has promised me 150 signings per month in NC & SC. Another company has promised 250 signings per month total in 6 states. As you can see, different companies to target different states.
Reply by sue_pa on 5/3/08 8:12am Msg #246068
how does that trickle down work?
75 orders a month in NC and 75 orders a month in SC. That equals 17.31 orders a week - how many closers are going to be getting 'volume' in rather large area states? 250 for 6 states = 41.66 per state - that's 9.61 per week in each state.
I'm not trying to be difficult but what benefit does $75 e-docs have for any of us? Perhaps I am very naive but I truly can't believe 15,000 title companies have decided to use your services.
Again, the payment issues are few and far between - seldom do we post about how wonderful it is to receive timely payment. I receive checks basically every day of the week (I stick the pin in the voodoo doll if the mailman misses me 2 days in a row) - while a check in 2 weeks is nice, it's certainly not necessary. A LOT of companies still pay twice a month. One of my clients even uses direct deposit twice a month so our money is now in our accounts 2-3 days earlier than before - a nice little perk but certainly not a factor for determining if I'll work for them or not (by the way, they pay $200 per order - mostly overnight docs). Not 'blowing us off' should not be an 'extra' it should be a given.
Title companies may not pay us if a loan doesn't close but that's seldom and we're making $150 from those companies so again - the math, at least for me, doesn't work.
Also, many loans right now are FHA - these are 150+ page loan packages x 2 and take a 'good' closer about an hour to go through with the borrowers.
Again, not trying to be difficult but looking at this from a different point of view.
Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 5/3/08 8:21am Msg #246072
Re: FHA - 150+ loan package x 2
You were lucky -- I had one that was over 750 pages (1,500 for both).
Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 8:35am Msg #246085
Re: how does that trickle down work?
You are not being difficult. I really appreciate your feedback. As far as the 15,000 companies, let me clarify. They haven't all agreed . Their will be a press release by the company that hosts the software. It is very cost effective for them, no more phone calls, no more typing confirms and orders. At the press of a button, orders are streamlined to me. I like the idea of direct deposit and will mlook into it further. The volume you broke down is for only 2 companies. Just for laughs, say it is 200 companies out of the 15,000. Here is another example. Last months end of month, one company gave me 29 closings in CT. I assigned 16 of them to 4 of my good notaries. This is where it is good for notaries. If you do right by me, I will make sure to keep you busy. Maybe $75 doesn't work. That is what this was designed to do, get your feedback.
Reply by WDMD on 5/3/08 8:40am Msg #246087
Re: how does that trickle down work?
"If you do right by me, I will make sure to keep you busy. Maybe $75 doesn't work."
Your fees are right there with FASS and LandAM, both of which pay every couple of weeks also. There seems to be no shortage of notaries who love them. You should not have any problem finding someone at that rate I guess.
Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 5/3/08 8:45am Msg #246090
Re: Sheesh - so now you DON'T have the 15,000 companies n/m
Reply by Gary_CA on 5/3/08 10:21am Msg #246109
lose a little on each job and make it up in volume...
I don't do edocs for under $100, not ever, period. For $100 it has to be one loan and close to home.
Had I been one of your favored notaries in CT and taken 4 jobs for $75 instead of 3 for $100 or 2 for $150, what would I get for the volume???
Less time off, that's what.
There are always lowballers, I worked for a few of them when I was new... that's what you'll be, a newbie training center.
Good luck
Reply by sue_pa on 5/3/08 10:50am Msg #246115
Re: how does that trickle down work?
.... As far as the 15,000 companies, let me clarify. They haven't all agreed . Their will be a press release ...
So you are getting ready to 'solicit' 15,000 companies - not that 15,000 companies are using that software. A HUGE difference. Out of those 15,000 companies, MANY use direct notaries and your 'sales pitch' of no more phone calls, no more typing confirmations, etc., fails to address one very HUGE factor - they lose complete and total control over who does their work - a notary who has never seen nor touched a loan packet can conceivably receive their order. There are MANY companies who will not give up that control and that is why they are willing to pay and pay well for consistent, reliable closers - so they have individuals ready and available no matter what or when their request .
Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/3/08 11:45am Msg #246131
Re: how does that trickle down work? I suspect that
15,000 companies is hardly the proprietary program of this particualr signing service but may in fact be a "pipeline" program where the 15,000 companies many of which have not yet signed up with the service) will be able to immediately access 30 to 40,000 signing services/notaries so that they can send out the order and then whoever responds first gets the job, its been tried and frankly I think its a lousy system, I would never allow any of my escrows to be shopped out like to people I have no control over: no way! I won't do business with some one who purports capabilities that they really don't have, it's buying a pig in a poke.
Reply by Roger_OH on 5/3/08 9:37am Msg #246099
Doing the right thing...
You want to do right by everyone? Then take a stand and raise the bar. Tell your companies that you offer a certain level of quality service, have the experienced notaries to back it up, and you pay them at a rate commensurate with the value of the service they are providing.
Your rates are laughable for any one with experience; you will certainly attract those newbies and bottom feeders, and you will eventually pay someone else to fix their increasing errors. Why not just pay someone good a fair rate for their quality the first time? You get what you pay for in this business, and cheap will always show itself. You can certainly get a brake job or LASIK eye surgery at a discount, but do you really want to? No, you go with the proven pros. Take the high road here and stand for something, not just cheapness. You have an opportunity to make a real difference, and not be just another dime-a-dozen SS.
Reply by Becca_FL on 5/3/08 11:31am Msg #246129
Re: Doing the right thing...How true, Roger!
I am convinced that the majority of signing service owners have never had a successful sales career. The most basic sales training teaches you to never rely on the cost of the services you are providing to sell your product or service, but the services that you provide and what sets you apart from the rest of the pack. Sales are based on WIFM or "what's in it for me" with me being the purchaser of your service. What this guy is selling is nothing different nor unique. He is simply saying "hey, look at me, I can provide cheap national signing services." That, is no way to sell services, never has, never will be.
I sell myself and my network everyday and I get new clients that are willing to pay a very good fee for for a very good job. I will go the extra mile to get the job done, I don't complain about it and use my common sense and education to quickly solve problems that may cause hurdles in the closing process. The EOs that I work with would much rather pay my fee with the assurance that things will be done right and to their expectations.
I just don't see a $75 notary having that kind of commitment and dedication. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
Reply by MistarellaFL on 5/3/08 10:35am Msg #246113
"company has promised XXX signings per month"
NNS, no offense meant here, but a promise is not the same as a written guarantee, and that is something I doubt you'll be receiving in this matter. I don't know how many times I have heard that line in the last 5 years. I do know that every time I have heard it, the promise has fallen through. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched, friend. You may be hearing that from a company in order to get you to lower fees based on volume. FWIW, in this economy, I doubt that any company can guarantee that kind of volume. Maybe so, and I hope it happens for you, but I hope you keep your ear to the ground and aren't placing all your hopes in that promise.
Reply by Les_CO on 5/3/08 10:39am Msg #246114
Re: my comment is the same as the other day
Good luck getting a closing done in SC for $50. Better add $300 to that.
Reply by Becca_FL on 5/3/08 11:33am Msg #246130
SC is an atty state so those #s don't mean squat here. n/m
Reply by CaliNotary on 5/3/08 12:16pm Msg #246137
What you want, a cookie?
"I am constantly reading about notaries complaining about having to wait 30, 60, even 90 days to get paid. I don't care when the title companies pay me, that is my problem not yours. I pay you in 2 weeks. Mistakes are made, we are only human. If a notary doesn't get their check within 3 weeks, they can call me directly. I will not blow you off like other companies do."
Whenever I read stuff like this I'm reminded of Chris Rock (the 2:10 mark to be exact)
Reply by Gary_CA on 5/3/08 1:50pm Msg #246148
ROFLMAO n/m
Reply by PAW on 5/3/08 7:31am Msg #246054
Huh?
>> We are the only signing service on this software. Because of the tremendous volume, we have to lower our fees. <<
This is not a viable rationale in my opinion. Your volume has little, if anything, to do with our volume, unless your client is targeting our area, and you are willing to guarantee a certain level of work load and income.
Most professional contractors have their own fee structure, not dictated by their customers (signing services, title companies, lenders, etc. in this case). If you choose not to meet the fees set by the contractor, then find another contractor. Of course, you run the risk of getting what you pay for.
Have you examined what it costs to do an edoc signing 15 miles away? A total of $75 for time, materials and all the other fixed costs certainly doesn't meet my criteria. Count me out. But thanks for asking.
Reply by WDMD on 5/3/08 7:34am Msg #246056
Re: Feedback needed
I don't know if you have any business in Maryland but if you do at those rates you're going to need to go the illegal route and hire un-licensed signers.
Reply by Alice/MD on 5/3/08 8:00am Msg #246064
Re: Feedback needed
Your needed feedback makes me laugh. In Maryland, this would be an insult to the licensed Title Insurance Producer.. not to mention the background screened, and certified/bonded ones. What is wrong with this picture is that the law in place is not enforced. How to we stop this?
Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 8:08am Msg #246066
Re: Feedback needed
All states are different. I do follow all state guidelines. For example, one company I turned away claims they pay $50-$65 total for an e-doc signing in AR & AL. This fee schedule is not written in stone for every state. I am taking all feedback into consideration and will make this work for all parties.
Reply by A-1 Signing Agents, LLC on 5/3/08 7:38am Msg #246058
Re: Feedback needed
It makes no sense that with the "tremendous volumn" that you would have to lower your fee's? I'd think with that much work, it wouldn't hurt to pay standard or even more. Gee, I made way too much money last year, i'll cut my employee's salary. ???? Did I misunderstand something? Color me confused. Or educate me at least.
Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 7:59am Msg #246063
Re: Feedback needed
If a company is giving you 250 signings per month, they want the absolute lowest fees possible. With some companies, I am only allowed to make $10. When they refuse to pay a notary for a signing that wasn't completed because half way through the borrowers changed their mine, I absorb the cost. Some companies don't pay if a loan doesn't fund, I pay. Keep all this in mind.
Reply by WDMD on 5/3/08 8:08am Msg #246067
Re: Feedback needed
"With some companies, I am only allowed to make $10."
What does that mean? Thats absurd. Do they verify what you pay your notaries? Even if you get volume you better be getting Wal Mart volume to suvive at that profit rate.
Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 8:20am Msg #246071
Re: Feedback needed
That is what this deal is designed to do. I also have an attorney assigned to every file to prevent a signing from dying at the table. Just last night, I had a double signing in OR. The borrower refused to sign the second loan without clarifying things w/broker. It was 11 pm EST and no one could be reached at the title company or broker. The attorney stepped in and the borrower was explained what she needed to know. She signed. This makes everybodies life easier.
Reply by sue_pa on 5/3/08 8:24am Msg #246076
one more 'final' thought since I read this post
You say you can only earn $10 on some orders (I realize you did not say all) and now you also tell us that you have an attorney ready and available on 'every' order?
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/08 8:25am Msg #246078
Re: Feedback needed
** The attorney stepped in and the borrower was explained what she needed to know.**
Really? Who was that attorney "hired" by? Who were they representing?
Reply by sue_pa on 5/3/08 8:29am Msg #246081
Re: Feedback needed
we know for a fact they don't represent the borrower.
we know for a fact they don't represent the lender.
we can be reasonably certain from the way he worded this they don't represent the title company.
we can be reasonably certain there is not an attorney on retainer available on call in all 50 states 24/7 for this or any other company to 'explain' documents they don't have in front of them and that they've not looked over prior to the phone call. I worked in a law office from 1973 until 2001 and no lawyer would ever have given 'advice' to a 'stranger' on the phone in this manner.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/08 8:36am Msg #246086
Yep....sue_pa, it sounds like this person
has no experience with real attorneys who take their state's Code of Ethics seriously.
Not saying they don't have an attorney, but no attorney in their right mind would take this kind of job...but there are those who would...just not very smart attorneys.
Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 5/3/08 8:26am Msg #246080
Re: I also have an attorney assigned to every file...
Well, there you go -- that explains the $55.00 signings!
Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/3/08 8:24am Msg #246075
Re: Feedback needed
If they are only "allowing" you to make $10 on a signing then you are dealing with the wrong companies. If a company won't pay me my signing company fees then I will not work with them. I will not shortchange my notaries. $75 for edocs is ridiculously low!
No signing agent should accept less than $100 for overnight docs, and $135 for edocs. And they should expect their check shortly after the signing. And I am speaking as a signing service! And of course when a borrower refuses to sign and the notary has made the trip out there and spent the time with the borrower, then they are entitled to their full fee, and, yes, we as signing services have to absorb that cost. It's a cost of doing business.
Also, if a company calls me and they can't pay the fee I need, but the fee offered is what I would be paying the signing agent, then I happily give the company the signing agents number and let them work directly with them.
When you go into the signing service business you need to have the capital to pay your signing agents on completion of the closing whether the loan goes through or not, and whether you get paid or not.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/08 8:26am Msg #246079
Thank you, Sylvia!
**No signing agent should accept less than $100 for overnight docs, and $135 for edocs. And they should expect their check shortly after the signing. And I am speaking as a signing service!**
Reply by Nomad/OR on 5/3/08 9:50am Msg #246104
Re: Feedback needed
Sign me up please Ms. Sylvia!
Reply by MonicaFL on 5/3/08 8:17am Msg #246069
Re: Feedback needed
Sounds to me like you are looking for the newbies to help you line your pockets. When I owned a specialized staffing agency my policy was this: Yes, my fees might be greater than the other companies but you are getting quality professionals who know what they are doing - that helped my business -made it the best in town and I didn't have to "reduce" my fees for volume. They knew what they were getting and paid for it. Good luck on finding qualified professional notaries!!!!
Reply by sue_pa on 5/3/08 8:21am Msg #246073
one final thought
Why do you need feedback from us 2 days before your 'grand opening'? Wasn't your business plan set up months ago? Our feedback at this point should be totally useless. Aren't your contracts already signed with the 15,000 title companies? As for you 'only being allowed to earn $10 per order" that's a bunch of bunk - they pay you $xxx and you decide what to do with it.
Please keep in mind that all of us in this business aren't newly dropped from the turnip truck.
I'm hoping I'm reading a lot of this wrong and that you raise your fees to an acceptable level since you appear to want experience and that you have this tremendous volume - 'volume' clients this day in age is a great thing for anyone that can get them.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/08 8:24am Msg #246077
Re: Feedback needed
**The signing fee would be $55 for a total of $75. **
Too low.
Please tell us what you are getting paid for each of those. (Of course you won't.) You are either bidding too low or you are keeping too much. Keeping 100% or more of what each signing pays is not something I can respect.
One reason I am disgusted by most signing services is because they take such a high cut out of the full price. On the other hand, some have low bid the jobs until they have no profit margin and will not be able to thrive; they will pay notaries late, later, and later and then go belly up.
Not enough professionals in the signing service industry, and as a whole, it is hard to have a lot of respect for someone offering $75 with edocs. Too many wannabes. The proof is in the pudding:
Longevity in the business. Timely payments. Fair fees.
For the most part, a signing services overhead is no greater than the notary's. But they want pure profit off the top at a fee that gouges the notary's work.
I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but that is the way I feel.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/08 8:30am Msg #246082
Re: Feedback needed - correction
**Keeping 100% or more of what each signing pays is not something I can respect.**
That's what I said.
What I meant was:
**Keeping >>for yourself<< 100% or more of what each signing pays >>the notary<<is not something I can respect.**
In other words, if the signing pays you $150 and you keep $75 or more (same as you are paying the notary), I think that's a little much.
Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 3:53pm Msg #246163
Re: Feedback needed - correction
I do not charge anywhere near that figure. Anyone that can get that fee from a big title company GOD BLESS. My fees are based on volume clients only.
Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/3/08 4:00pm Msg #246164
Re: Feedback needed - correction
You mean as a signing service you don't get at least $150 for edoc signings from your title companies????????? No wonder you can't afford to pay notaries what they are worth.
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/3/08 8:42am Msg #246088
Here's my feedback to you...
I registered on your website; I received the signup package signed by someone who is no longer with the company together with the Agreement dated 2005; I also received your page to be faxed back with the boxes for us to place a copy of (1) our driver's license <<nope>>; (2) our social security card <<nope>> and (3) OUR NOTARY STAMP!!! <<NO NO NO>>..and your fee structure is just ludicrous...needless to say I won't be signing any of it and I honestly doubt anyone who takes their business seriously will sign it - but that's just my opinion.
My suggestion to you is to get your affairs in order before you put yourself out there as a service that will take care of its notaries - paying $50 for a first mortgage and $25 for a concurrent second is NOT, IMO, taking care of the notary. Take the time to update your website and your agreements - be the professional you claim to be....yes you have to prioritize, but honestly expecting people to sign up based on outdated (so you claim) information is just silly.
I know you've received some praise from some people and I have taken note of that..and maybe you really do want to be a great company to work with - get your act together...FIRST...
JMHO
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/3/08 8:54am Msg #246091
And I should add one final thought
I don't buy into the "volume" theory - IMO the word "volume" should be a four-letter word...."volume" just means let us pay you cheaper...we still print it all, drive a lot and spend a lot of time before, during and after the signing to ensure YOUR clients are happy....volume doesn't make the services and supplies cheaper. MHO
Reply by Cheryl Elliott on 5/3/08 9:10am Msg #246095
Re: And I should add one final thought
There is no such thing as volume these days...all the title companies have scaled down, laying off people who've worked for them for years as their lead sr escrow officers. When their contract comes up for renewal, they can either renegotiate or leave the company. Guess what, it doesn't go up, it comes down. There is not enough work for the head count at these companies. These fees are paltry. They are beginning fees for notary/signing agents who are inexperienced. We will no longer except this rational.
I think perhaps you paid too much for your business and your software, with an obsolete website that you have to throw more money at to get up to speed. We as notaries don't feel like paying for that expense. That's your business, not ours.
I don't think you will find too many enthusiastic participants from this notary community rushing to buy into your rationale and settling for these ridiculously low fees, not with the cost of gas and paper rising all the time. Since when do we take pay cuts as we become more seasoned and proficient at this business because folks like you did not accurately work this out before you decided to purchase the business. Sorry.
Reply by Carmen/123 on 5/3/08 11:18am Msg #246126
Re: And I should add one final thought
Well said Chery and right on the money!!
C
Reply by Les_CO on 5/3/08 11:06am Msg #246123
Re: Here's my feedback to you...
Just my opinion, but I’d bet this guy is not a notary, has never done a closing, has no experience in the legal, real estate, title, or lender business. If so he wouldn’t ask for something that’s illegal in most States that require a notary seal.(yup some don’t) Running a nationwide Signing Service requires some extensive knowledge in many areas, compliance issues in different States being just one. Just because one used to manage a nail salon, doesn’t mean you can be successful as a Signing Service. Someone sold this guy a bill of goods, and now he’s trying to sell it to us.
Reply by Carmen/123 on 5/3/08 11:19am Msg #246127
I was thinking the same thing!...n/t
Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 4:10pm Msg #246166
Re: Here's my feedback to you...
Yes, in some states it is illegal therefore not required. And no. I've been in this business for close to 6 years. The new site will no longer automatically send these packages out.
Reply by Les_CO on 5/4/08 10:05am Msg #246220
Re: Here's my feedback to you...
You’ve been in this business for six years? What business in that? A Signing Service? You run a Signing Service and don’t know which States are attorney States? You don’t know in some States it’s not legal to place your notary seal on a blank document, or on something you are not notarizing? You are not asking for a W-9, or a copy of someone’s notary commission, but for their driver license, and their SS number? Who do you think will send you that information? And just who are you? let US have some personal info on you and your company.
Reply by The Notary National Signers on 5/3/08 4:03pm Msg #246165
Re: Here's my feedback to you...
Go back to our website wednsday. It will all be updated. Thank you for also taking note of the compliments. I do try to be fair and based on all the feedback I have decided not to lower fees paid to notaries. I am doing everything possible to keep my notaries happy. I take all suggestions seriously. I even tell notaries when a problem does occur, this is what I'm charging the customer, tell me what you want for this. I only ask them to be fair with me. Notaries that have worked for me know I'm fair. I will always listen and I am not afraid to break even or even lose money on a certain file. The main thing is to get the job done.
Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/3/08 4:52pm Msg #246169
Re: Here's my feedback to you...
A fair fee is no less than $100 for an overnight signing and $135 for edocs.
Reply by CaliNotary on 5/3/08 8:22pm Msg #246183
Re: Here's my feedback to you...
"I will always listen and I am not afraid to break even or even lose money on a certain file. The main thing is to get the job done."
No, the main thing is structuring your business in a way that's going to bring you financial success. Volume clients don't mean squat if you're only making a pittance on each loan. You shouldn't have to break even or lose money on a certain file, you should be charging enough to get the job done right by a quality signing agent, as well as leaving a fair amount for you.
"I even tell notaries when a problem does occur, this is what I'm charging the customer, tell me what you want for this."
I could care less what you're charging the customer. If it were the other way around and you were charging them $300 a signing I think it's safe to say you wouldn't tell us that so we could adjust our fees upwards. My fees are my fees, if you're not smart enough to charge enough for your services that's your problem, not mine. I'm not working for less just because you don't know how to run your company properly.
Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/3/08 9:06am Msg #246093
Re: Feedback needed - I got your PM
However I think this discussion belongs on the board, not in PM's and private phone calls, so thank's for the invite, but I won't be calling.
To respond to your PM. Yes, I do pay $135 for edocs and $100 for overnight signings, and the check goes out in the next mail - a member of this board did a signing for me yesterday afternoon, the check is already in the mail (had the signing been done in the morning, the check would have gone out in the afternoon mail)
Anyone on this board who has done signings for me can vouch for the veracity of my statements.
In your PM you stated that you take care of your notaries and they are happy with your fees. So, my question is, if that is the case why do you need "feedback" from members of this forum. Your notaries are happy and obviously you are happy and that is the bottom line.
Reply by Carmen/123 on 5/3/08 11:21am Msg #246128
Re: Feedback needed - I got your PM
Now if every signing company was as responsible and efficient as Sylvia our world would be just perfect.
Carmen
Reply by CaliNotary on 5/3/08 12:24pm Msg #246139
Re: Feedback needed - I got your PM
"So, my question is, if that is the case why do you need "feedback" from members of this forum. Your notaries are happy and obviously you are happy and that is the bottom line."
Because he's full of crap. Any notary that would be happy with those fees is a notary that he's not going to be happy with. These are the same notaries that will cancel a signing at the end of the day because they're too tired and just don't feel like doing it, or show up in sweats, or bring their kids, or.........
Reply by Becca_FL on 5/3/08 9:15am Msg #246097
Please explain this comment for me.
"I am trying to be fair to both, customers and notaries."
How are signing service fees fair for the consumer? Ultimately, it is the consumer that is paying our fees and I feel they should get what they are paying for. I believe it could be argued that signing services fees include hidden fees that are not disclosed on the HUD. What if these fees were disclosed on the HUD? What if the HUD was prepared to show the signing fee broken down showing the notary fee of $75 and the signing service fee of $50 or $75? Don't you think consumers would what to know what the signing service fee was for? I know I would, and I want to know as a notary as well. I just can't see how most signing services can justify their fees.
I'm with Brenda on this one...I get so disgusted when I see signing services advertising fees lower than my basic fees. Can't you signing service owners see that it is you that have created the monster? You are the problem and are doing nothing to promote a solution.
By the way, don't ever call me for a closing. I wouldn't even walk across the street for that fee.
Reply by Stamper_WI on 5/3/08 9:24am Msg #246098
On volume
How about giving the volume at our fees, then talking to us about lowering rates for the volume. I used to fall for that volume spiel and not once did I get a volume. While I am a public servant, I am not a charity. Espeically for a middleman. $75 per does not show me a profit. Used to be so, but that was years ago.
Reply by janCA on 5/3/08 9:49am Msg #246102
Re: On volume
This makes me want to up-chuck. You're justifying paying these disgusting fees by stating that you will actually pay the notary for the work she/he has done, be it two weeks or 30 days or whatever. Well bravo to you. In other words, if you were to quote a decent fee of $125-$150 for e-docs, then you wouldn't pay??? I'm assuming that since you've stated you have to lower your fees to the notary, that you are probably contracted with the title companies for $125-150, because there aren't too many SS's that don't take at least 50% of that fee. I'm also assuming you're not a notary or haven't done signings because you don't know what's involved or realize that at $75 you can't make a profit. And, Sylvia, you are "da woman". I wish you would go nationwide.
Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 5/3/08 9:50am Msg #246103
Volume
What you are offering is low fees + large volume = reasonable income. My personal experience in six years as a signing agent is that reasonable fees + reasonable volume = reasonable income. My sense of the board is that most of the more experienced signing agents, despite the real estate crash, have been able to maintain reasonable volume, even if not at the levels prevalent during the preceding fevered market.
Assuming that the promise of large volume actually materializes, which appears open to question, basically all you have offered me is more work for the same income. I suspect the same is true for the great majority of signing agents who have reached the equivalent level of experience and professionalism. Thus, you're going to be relegated to using less experienced, and presumably less qualified, agents, to whom the promise of a reasonable income at almost any price will be attractive -- or even heaven-sent.
So, the question arises: When you pitch to YOUR customers, do you tell them that at your cutrate fees, they are getting second-rate service? Or do you sell them on the idea they are getting people who know what they are doing, then send out a $50 notary?
Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/4/08 9:38am Msg #246214
Re: On volume
In reality, I think it's very difficult for an SS to deliver a consistent level of volume to an individual notary. The SS knows this, but that doesn't seem to stop them from playing the volume card in an effort to lower their costs. I say put up or shut up - don't just say the words, show me you can deliver.
I think the only way a notary can win in a volume discount situation is to structure the agreement so that the discount kicks in AFTER a target number is reached. For example, the first 10 signings in a given month are at regular fee, and the fee is discounted starting with signing #11. The meter resets to 0 when the new month begins.
At least that way, both sides can win something. The notary doesn't lower fees based on a promise of volume that may never appear. If the SS actually delivers the volume promised, he or she earns the benefit of reduced fees; no volume, no discount.
Reply by BrendaTx on 5/3/08 9:37am Msg #246100
Re: Please explain this comment for me.
**Ultimately, it is the consumer that is paying our fees and I feel they should get what they are paying for. **
Exactly Becca. Indiscriminate choosing of notaries based on cheap prices is abhorrent. But that's what $75/edocs signing services do in my experience. It's greed driven when that's the case...and that's hard for me to generate much respect for.
Reply by RickinVA on 5/3/08 9:44am Msg #246101
Re: Feedback needed
Interesting discussion, but I think some people are hung up on wording! I signed up a few weeks ago when this SS posted the first message I saw. I didn't agree to anything, I sent no copy of anything and my understanding of his business plan was that he would call for service when he had work. I'm an independent contractor, and I will work for what I consider to be a fee that pays my costs and a fair profit. I reserve the right to turn down a job with a fee that I consider to be inadequate. I don't care what his website says about what he pays or expects, other than how fast or slowly he pays. If the confirmation has requirements that don't meet my requirements, I turn the job down, or get the confirmation corrected to my requirements. So far, I have not been contacted to work, but if/when I am contacted, we can negociate fees and condition, etc. In the meantime, this back and forth, and the picking his website apart, is just putting the cart before the horse.
Just my 23.2 cents. (Inflation, you know.)
Rick
Reply by CaliNotary on 5/3/08 12:30pm Msg #246140
Re: Feedback needed
"I signed up a few weeks ago when this SS posted the first message I saw. I didn't agree to anything, I sent no copy of anything and my understanding of his business plan was that he would call for service when he had work."
Sounds to me like you're just wasting your time. I guess it's theoretically possible that you'll get called for a signing someday, but why bother? If someone's fee structure and requirements are that radically different from what I consider reasonable, why would I want to waste even more time on them in the future? I can live without a bunch of "I'll have to get that fee approved and call you back" calls.
Reply by RickinVA on 5/3/08 2:01pm Msg #246151
Re: Feedback needed
Yeah, but! In this rural area, I often get calls back agreeing to my fee, so I figure that that's one I wouldn't have gotten if I hadn't had the opportunity to give a quote in the first place. I had all of 7 (SEVEN) signings in the month of April, which makes each signing about 15% of my signing income for that month. (Varies depending on variables.) Would you give up that percentage because you're too busy/tired/burned out to send a message to a Notary listing? I won't.
Rick
Reply by Gary_CA on 5/3/08 10:28am Msg #246112
Merrily merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream...
okay, now the second part comes in...
Troll troll troll your boat gently down the stream...
Reply by docs1954CA on 5/3/08 11:06am Msg #246122
Mark my words...
This board will get slammed with complaints by the newbies who fall for this "volume" crap. If this guy is only making $10 on some orders as he claims, I doubt it, I hear that lie all the time, he won't be able to pay within 2 weeks.By the way several people claimed he was a great company to work for and paid "much more" then the paltry $50 he was offering. How much more?
Reply by Carmen/123 on 5/3/08 11:45am Msg #246132
My take on this whole thing is ....
that for the most part (excluding Sylvia and a couple of others who do it right) most signing services in this current market have no place in this industry. They are middle men taking a large percentage of our hard earned, well deserved money. Back in the day when things were super busy they did have a purpose; they saved the title/escrow folks allot of time. But those days are over. The bottom line is that those of you who continue to work for these low pay, slow pay, if they ever pay companies will never make it in this business. Keep in mind they need us...we really don't need them. Remember folks we assume all of the risk...all of it. If you advertise and market wisely you can just cut them out altogether. If you need income find something to supplement your income until you can build your title/escrow contacts up. To work for such paltry is just plain stupid. It is an insult to our profession. You have to consider what is your time, expertise, and cost of doing business is worth to you!!?? Mine is worth a hexx of allot more that 40.00, 50.00, 75.00, etc.
Bottom line if the SS's can't find any notaries...the companies won't use them. They will have to call us direct...which allot seem to be doing do to some of the bad experiences that they have had in the past with notaries that were hired by SS's looking to save a buck by using inexperienced notaries. We have the power to change all of this but we have to stick together!
Carmen
Reply by Charles_Ca on 5/3/08 11:49am Msg #246133
Re: My take on this whole thing is .... Right on Carmen!
Of course as many have come to realize (myself included) organizing notaries is a lot like herding cats.
Reply by MistarellaFL on 5/3/08 12:35pm Msg #246141
"a lot like herding cats" ROFLMAO
maybe I should start an agency....I am a cat herder :O
Reply by Les_CO on 5/3/08 3:14pm Msg #246159
Re: My take on this whole thing is ....
Carmen, some of the largest title companies in the country now pay $50. Why? Because they can! However NO ONE pays $50 in Georgia, South Carolina, West Virginia, Massachusetts, or Delaware. Thank the NNA for just about destroying this business, with there get rich quick, notary “Signing Agent” mills.
Reply by Carmen/123 on 5/3/08 7:41pm Msg #246180
Re: My take on this whole thing is ....
Thankfully I have not run into any of those. I work for many title/escrow companies and at the very minimum I get 150.00.
One part of the problem is a very simple one; all one has to do is say NO to whomever is asking for you to take these low fees. If they cannot get any one to do their closing for these low amounts then the fees will come up. But to get everyone to stick together is the 2nd part of the problem......
~Carmen
Reply by Richard Ingram on 5/3/08 3:17pm Msg #246161
Re: My take on this whole thing is ....
Carmen, You hit the nail on the head. If we stick together they will have to go with professionals. We can change the whole industry but only if we keep our fees up and our work product the very best.
Reply by Therese on 5/3/08 7:33pm Msg #246179
Re: My take on this whole thing is ....WELL PUT!!! n/m
Reply by PAW on 5/3/08 12:01pm Msg #246134
How much more? n/m
Reply by PAW on 5/3/08 12:03pm Msg #246135
Oops, pressed wrong button ...
How much more? I did a signing for NNS back in May 2005, for considerably more than what their offering now. (>2x) Paid in 13 days.
I guess what they were then is not the same as what they are now.
