Posted by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 5/29/08 11:30am
Msg #249219

Notarizing a handmade document

I have a question for Virginia notaries. I had someone call me today to have a handmade document notarized for them. It is to have information given to him from an orphanage where he used to live. He said the bank will not do it because it is a handmade form. As long as the Virginia acknowledgement is used, can I notarize his signature with proper id's? Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that I am only notarizing the signature not the validity of the document. Feedback from anyone would be helpful. I have never had this question come up.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/29/08 11:43am
Msg #249220

Kathi
Not a VA notary but I have notarized signatures on handmade documents plenty of times.
We are only notarizing the signature. Heck, they can bring me a statement made on a paper towel, and if they sign it and want their signature notarized I won't argue with them.

I have noticed, more and more, banks refusing to notarize documents that are not connected to the bank. I have clients coming to me that are getting my info from the local banks.

I am assuming that although it is information given to him by an orphanage that he is the one signing the document and whose signature you are notarizing?

Reply by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 5/29/08 11:50am
Msg #249225

Thank you for responding Sylvia. I have not seen the document but from his explanation he is requesting info and I will be notarizing his signature. Thanks so much for your help. I got worried when the bank said no.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/29/08 12:02pm
Msg #249228

**I have noticed, more and more, banks refusing to notarize documents that are not connected to the bank. I have clients coming to me that are getting my info from the local banks.
**

Me too.

Reply by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 5/29/08 12:05pm
Msg #249229

Thanks Brenda. I hope this wasn't the bank the man banks with because I as a customer would be quite upset. At first the bank not taking care of this scared me, but it seems to be common pratice. Good to know.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/29/08 11:44am
Msg #249221

Yes, my understanding is that you can notarize this as long as the document preparer or signer chooses an ack or jurat (if no notarial wording is already printed on the doc) and the notary certificate is on the same page as the signature your are notarizing. I have ack and jurat stamps that come in very handy for this purpose.

Reply by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 5/29/08 11:54am
Msg #249226

Thank you so much for responding CopperheadVa. I am sure there is no wording on the doc so I can just add the ack to the page. I don't have a stamp for that, but may to get one in the near future. I will have him email the doc and I will add ack to it and then meet and notarize. Thank you so much.

Reply by Pierces Notary Services on 5/29/08 12:37pm
Msg #249238

In PA we can not tell them whether to use a jurat or ack - they have to tell us what they want.

Reply by sue_pa on 5/31/08 8:14am
Msg #249461

are you sure?

Marlene speak up here please.

When I started reading these boards I was terrified that I had been doing my job wrong for 20+ years. I started questioning everything I did. Naive me did not realize the differences between states. At the PAN seminars, my hand was always up. One time at the paralegal assoc. lunch Marc was the speaker. My hand was up about this very question. His response was that it's our job to know the purpose of the various notary powers and a layman basically would have no idea so of course we can help them.

Reply by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 5/31/08 10:13am
Msg #249482

Re: are you sure?

Thanks sue_pa. He actually went to a bank and spoke with the notary there. That is what had me worried. Most Virginia banks have a notary on staff. I am actually going to meet him on Monday to take care of this for him. Thanks for your response.

Reply by davidK/CA on 5/29/08 12:48pm
Msg #249241

Years ago in California, your local bank was an easy place to get any sort of a document notarized, then (I assume because of potential liabilities) the banks started restricting notarizations to customers only. Soon it became just documents originated by the bank to its customers such as loan papers.

Today with branch banking in every supermarket the banks don't even notarize the loan documents they create and instead they call on mobile NSAs to come to the branch and notarize the documents in the grocery store-branch bank's tiny office.

Were I notarizing a hand written document without the appropriate Acknowledgement or Jurat language on the document itself I would be sure to write "see attached Acknowledgement" or "see attached Jurat" directly on the face of the hand written page. In addition, if your state permits it I would indicate the title of the document, the number of pages and the document date on the Acknowledgement or Jurat itself. That way you have completely tied your Notary activity to that specific document and there can be no question of what you did and how you did it, and it prevents your Acknowledgement or Jurat from being detached and used for some other purpose.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/29/08 1:10pm
Msg #249249

Exploit the Policies of Banks Who Do Not Do Notarizations

"Exploit!" I say.

The key to marketing a notary business is having your name where the person needing a notary goes to look for one.



Think about that...if you can accept appointments in your home...it's fast money. I can only charge $6 for a notary act...Five minutes, ten minutes tops...on my front door step. EASY MONEY. Buys me 25 to 50 miles!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/30/08 3:34pm
Msg #249410

Re: Exploit the Policies of Banks Who Do Not Do Notarization

Banks aren't (legally) allowed to do that in NY - the law says a notary cannot refuse any reasonable request to notarize. In the explanation of this, I saw references to the fact that an employer cannot restrict the notary's ability to perform a requested notarization even if the employer paid for the exam fee and the license fee (and before anyone barks at me - yes, we're commissioned, but the Division of Licensing handles the fee end of it, and the compilation of NY notary law is officially known as Notary Public Licensing Law, so we're actually both commissioned AND licensed).

Most banks here will provide notarization services as long as the notary is available. They're not supposed to discriminate between customers and non-customers - either do it free for both or charge both. Whether all handle it that way is another story.

We can only charge $2 per signature, so there's not a lot of money to be made... the few calls I've received for general notarization work I've referred to a bank or the UPS Store, because they didn't want to pay a travel fee.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/30/08 6:02pm
Msg #249414

Mike - $2 wouldn't be enough for me either,

but $6 makes it worthwhile.

I have a little table by my front door. That takes care of it. Ten minutes at the most and we are done.

Banks (in Texas anyhow) don't know that if they aren't supposed to refuse notarizations. And, for all I know they can, legally, do that. I haven't delved into that to figure it out. But if it is happening in your neighborhood and you know you can pick up a few extra dollars when you aren't doing anything else...do it.

I'd rather put forth ten minutes of free time for $6 pure profit than to work for a low-paying signing service...and we know things are slow for them...they have been all over the board in the last couple of days.

Reply by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 5/29/08 2:22pm
Msg #249260

Thanks David. In Virginia we can't use attachments. I received a copy of the letter and I amgoing to add the acknowledgement at the bottom of the letter. Does anyone see a problem with me doing that? Feedback appreciated.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/29/08 2:29pm
Msg #249262

No problem with a notary handwriting a certificate on the bottom of a document instead of attaching a loose one.
I sometimes do it instead of attaching a loose certificate.

Just make sure the signer lets you know what certificate he/she needs.

Reply by Kathi Conahan-Baltzelle on 5/29/08 2:38pm
Msg #249265

Thanks Sylvia!!

Reply by Mamie on 5/31/08 8:06pm
Msg #249565

I don't know if any of you will read this so far out of date, but I also use my seal to further lock the extra document to the original.