Posted by CopperheadVA on 5/9/08 11:50am
Msg #246892

Question: Using CA notary certificate in VA

A couple of days ago I was called by an individual who needed his signature notarized on a DOT for a property in CA. The ack was on a separate page from the signature, so I told the signer that I could not do that in VA - the notarization MUST be on the same page as his signature. I used my ack stamp that says "Acknowledged before me this ___ day of ______, _____, by ______________." I stamped it on the signature page and notarized. I put a sticky note on the blank notary page so the escrow company would know why I did not use the pre-printed certificate.

Today the escrow company called me and said it was rejected for recording. They have e-mailed me the DOT with notary certificate on the signature page and it has the CA wording. Virginia does not prohibit me from using the CA wording, however, it says in the notary certificate that as the notary "I certify under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing paragraph [notary certificate] is true and correct."

My question is, I am notarizing in VA, so is it proper for me to be certifying under CA perjury laws???

Reply by Teresa/FL on 5/9/08 11:58am
Msg #246894

Good question.

Sometimes I am asked to perform loan signings for people from California while they are on vacation in Florida. I have not done any of these signings since the first of the year, but it would be interesting to know how this should be handled.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/9/08 12:12pm
Msg #246896

Re: Good question.

I understand that CA notaries MUST use a certain wording and may not deviate from that. However, the doc was notarized in VA and I did so in compliance with VA notary regulations. The notarization I did was valid and proper. How can another state say, "Oh, no, not good enough - redo according to OUR standards"?????

I have an e-mail in to the VA Sec of Commonwealth, but in my experience I *may* get a coherent answer, but more likely not.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 5/9/08 12:23pm
Msg #246897

Re:CA Notarizaiton

In CA we are not restricted to using ONLY CA verbage in cases involving out of state documents .
As a CA notary, I can complete an out of state certificate FOR a document to be filed or recorded out of state, as long as the out of state certificate wording does not require me to determine or certify that a seller holds a particular representative capacity or make other determinations/certifications not allowed by CA law.

Reply by Donna LaBelle on 5/9/08 2:49pm
Msg #246932

Re: Re:CA Notarizaiton

I dont think so, in CA when notarizing, it must have the wording necessary for the location that you are notarizing in

Reply by BobbiCT on 5/9/08 12:32pm
Msg #246898

cite the U.S. Constitution ...

Not at a place where I can give you the full citation ... I think it's Article 5 .. "full faith and credit". Actions of a public official in one state must be honored by another (receiving) state.

That is: A proper notarization block completed in Virginia under Virginia law MUST BE ACCEPTED in California.

Myself and the attorneys I work with have often had to fax a copy of that section of the Constitution to a non-believer. You can't go higher than that!

Reply by MikeC/NY on 5/9/08 4:39pm
Msg #246948

Article 4, Section 1

"Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof."

Reply by Teresa/FL on 5/9/08 12:37pm
Msg #246899

IMO there are two issues

1. The notarization must comply with the laws of the state where the document is notarized.

Florida doesn't insist on specific wording in the certificate as long as all the required elements are there, so we can use a certificate designed for another state. What are the legal ramifications for a notary outside of CA who signs a certificate swearing he/she has complied with CA law?

2. The document needs to meet the requirements of the jurisdiction where it is to be recorded.

Unless we are made aware of the recording requirements, how can we be expected to fulfill them? Your situation appears to be driven by the recording being rejected because you did not use a CA compliant acknowledgement, but if the document was not acknowledged in CA, is this a valid reason to reject it? Really a question for the CA Recorder of Deeds.

Good luck getting an answer from your VA notary authority. More often than not, the answer I get from the FL SOS is to consult an attorney.

Reply by Kate/CA on 5/9/08 12:59pm
Msg #246900

Call the county recorder in the county that you are notarizing the document for and ask to speak to a supervisor. Get their name and quote it to the title company. You probably got a clerk that just looked at it, not realizing where you are notarizing from.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/9/08 1:27pm
Msg #246911

**Today the escrow company called me and said it was rejected for recording.**

A couple of comments...a couple of days is really quick for CA to reject it, IMHO. Sounds to me like maybe the escrow company in CA is afraid it will be rejected and they don't want to send it (just a guess).

Also...sometimes a county clerk will not record a DOT where there is a notary ack stamp used. That would be more like the problem in my estimation.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/9/08 1:39pm
Msg #246914

<< ...sometimes a county clerk will not record a DOT where there is a notary ack stamp used.>>

Brenda, do you know why a recorder would reject it if an ack stamp is used? I would think a stamp would be preferable to handwriting the certificate, but heck, what do I know!?!

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/9/08 9:33pm
Msg #246985

Copperhead, I have no idea.

It's just a common theme I have "heard" that causes rejection.

Reply by Gary_CA on 5/10/08 1:06pm
Msg #247021

Boring job...

Some (deputy) county clerks just need something to do... This one takes the cake... I did a signing in November 07... get a call from title in Feb, yes Feb that the deed didn't record... over the course of the signing 97 nervous phone calls from the borrower and her grandson lead me to believe that I would have known if the loan hadn't funded... they wanted the money yesterday... so I asked... yep it funded but didn't record (don't ask, don't tell)...

So... get this they were insisting on a 2008 Ack form... which not only wasn't required last November, it didn't exist. As I recall the final details of the form were worked out quite late in the game.

I was reluctant to prepare an ack cert with a date on it before the form existed (I'm a little OCD that way)... but I was reluctant to get into a battle of the wits with an unarmed county clerk too...

so I made a new cert and wrote on the bottom of it "the certificate is a duplicate of the certificate that was given at the time of the signing" dated the clause with the date I made the new cert and FedEx'd it to hell, er I mean to the Title Co.

Haven't heard back, I guess it flew.

By the way... whoever posted the Article from the Constitution above is showing how very little understanding he has of the doctrine of Divine Right of County Bureaucrats.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/10/08 7:29pm
Msg #247031

LOL... yep, the Divine Right of County Bureaucrats...

There was a sign in my local county zoning office. "Arguing with the Zoning Inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. After a while, you will realize the pig likes it. "

Reply by MW/VA on 5/9/08 2:37pm
Msg #246927

I've been in very similar situations with CA signings. I handled it exactly the way you did & they claim it won't record that way. I think they're just afraid to take the risk. It is an issue when they really push for those separate acks. I understand that is supposed to be revised in VA & that would solve a lot of problems.

Reply by Donna LaBelle on 5/9/08 2:48pm
Msg #246931

call your SOS

Reply by CopperheadVA on 5/9/08 3:11pm
Msg #246937

My SOS does not answer questions. They give a nebulous answer that doesn't make any sense (if they answer at all).

Reply by Terri_CA on 5/9/08 3:41pm
Msg #246942

I would advise the escrow company that you realize it looks way different from what they're used to seeing, but that's the law in VA, that the wording must be on the same page as the signatures (stamp versus handwritten I don't think is the issue). Did you by any chance cross out the other certificate? That's what I would have done. Without it being crossed out, it may look "unfinished."

In CA we can use out of state wording, provided the document is going back out of state to be filed. Does VA allow that? If not, see my first paragraph.

Terri
Lancaster, CA