Posted by BrendaTx on 5/4/08 3:35pm
Msg #246262

Question for Trinity Mobile Notary, Georgia

I looked at your website and noticed that you mention paralegal and administrative services but you don't mention being a lawyer. Since a regular notary cannot do loan signings in Georgia, what kind of work do you do?

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/4/08 4:55pm
Msg #246268

Goodness Trinity...I hope you can answer this...

More than one reader here is interested and has pm'd me....IMWTK! LOL

I am sure a few other notaries and attorneys from Georgia do as well.

If you are a signing service...why would you be interested in Notary Bay? That's what stumped me when you inquired. Before that I "assumed" you simply ran a signing service since I am pretty sure that no one except attorneys can handle loan signings in Georgia. Maybe GA Atty can help us out here.

Reply by GA/Atty on 5/4/08 5:16pm
Msg #246275

GA requires that an attorney be present at the signing......

I cannot hire and train a non-attorney notary and send them out to a closing. I must be PRESENT in PERSON - not present via conference call, not present via a chat room, not even in an office down the hall while my employee closes in the conference room - the attorney must be physically present at the very least for the signing of the deed of trust and the waiver of borrowers' rights.

That is my understanding of the law.


I have been called on 2 occasions by a rather frantic signing service or title company asking me to go out and reclose a loan that had originally been closed using a non-attorney NSA. I have also seen ads and listing for non-attorney NSA's who do it rather openly. When asked about it they usually say something like "I used to work for an attorney" or something like that.

I have sent an email to the UPL investigators at the GA bar a couple of times, but I have never heard a word back from them.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/4/08 5:38pm
Msg #246281

If I were you, GA/Atty...that would make me

want to take a big dip of snuff----->>**I have sent an email to the UPL investigators at the GA bar a couple of times, but I have never heard a word back from them.**

I mean, if they aren't going to enforce this thing then why the h-3-double-hockey-sticks couldn't you just train a few notaries, send them out, pay them well and still keep some to boot. You'd make a lot more money by not spending YOUR time at the appointment.

I hate it, hate it, hate it when I law is made and then ignored. (Right MD notaries?)

Reply by GA/Atty on 5/4/08 5:59pm
Msg #246284

Well, a couple of thoughts.....

As an attorney, I have to answer to the GA Bar. If I leave a borrower (or even a title company or signing service) feeling angry or unsatisfied (for some good reason), I know that they can file a complaint with the GA Bar alleging some kind of violation of a bar rule regarding my professional responsibility as a lawyer. That is much, much easier to do than filing suit in court.

That is one big advantage Georgia borrowers have over borrowers in other states. Although I am not representing the borrower in an attorney-client situation, I have to make certain that they understand all the ramifications of their loan - both positive and negative - from a more independent perspective than I might if there was no governing body out there who could pull the plug on my license if I do not conduct myself in accordance with their standards. I don't think most GA borrowers are aware of this benefit to the attorney only state, but I definitely do believe they get a big benefit from having an attorney in the chain of responsibility.

And, while it may cost more to get an attorney to close a loan as opposed to a notary, what does the difference really amount to? $200 more? $300? Even $500 is almost always less than a single month of interest on the loan in question. I think that is well worth it.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/4/08 6:11pm
Msg #246285

Re: Well, a couple of thoughts.....

**I definitely do believe they get a big benefit from having an attorney in the chain of responsibility.**

I cannot argue with you there. Borrowers would do well to hire an attorney to review all contracts as well as loan documents. Contracts, say for instance, written in boiler plate by a the home builders state association are not exactly going to be fairly balanced between the performance of the home builder and the buyer, yet buyers sign them all the time and if they don't have an ethical home builder well...they are pretty much toast.

Reply by JK/TX on 5/4/08 6:43pm
Msg #246289

Re: Well, a couple of thoughts.....

Contracts, say for instance, written in boiler plate by a the home builders state association are not exactly going to be fairly balanced between the performance of the home builder and the buyer, yet buyers sign them all the time and if they don't have an ethical home builder well...they are pretty much toast.

_____________________________
Could not agree more Brenda.... the home builder's contracts here are something else.... Buyer pays for most everything, including the builder's cost. And for some "strange" reason the buyer "must" close thru a certain title company of the builder's choice

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/4/08 7:26pm
Msg #246296

Re: Well, a couple of thoughts.....

**.... the home builder's contracts here are something else.... **

OMG... some I have seen are SOMETHING ELSE!!! It's so far in favor of the builder that it is practically the same as "we get everything our way...forever...and ever...and you are at our mercy."

A lawyer can be as handy as a pocket on a shirt if you get one to help you out BEFORE you sign your life away.

Reply by JK/TX on 5/4/08 9:47pm
Msg #246310

Re: Well, a couple of thoughts.....

I had one (don't get many at all, ya know) per the contract, seller (builder) agreed to provide the buyer w/a 10 yr. home warranty.... so, I put the home warranty charge on the seller's side of the HUD.....seller refused to pay, stating they agreed to "provide" the home warranty but not "pay" for it...... how lame. Bad business practice. imo

I'd rather buy a home that's at least 5 to 10 years old in TX anyway... I want to make sure my house still has the same address as my foundation in years to come.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 5/4/08 8:18pm
Msg #246300

Re: Well, a couple of thoughts.....

GA/ Atty,
"Although I am not representing the borrower in an attorney-client situation, I have to make certain that they understand all the ramifications of their loan - both positive and negative - from a more independent perspective "

If you could please enlighten me how you handle a closing differently than a non-attorney notary public. When you go over the note what do you say other than pointing out the loan amt., rate, $ amount of principle & interest, grace period? Or the RTC, when we point out the date the loan funds? Or when we point out the information on the TIL? What other clarifications/explanations do you provide concerning the ramifications of the loan process. I am not trying to be facetious, I truly am interested in how closings in an Attorney state are different than in a non Attorney state.

Reply by GA/Atty on 5/4/08 8:56pm
Msg #246304

Here are the differences as I see them

The primary difference, and the point of my post, is not a difference in the way the closing is conducted; rather, it is that the borrower has a recourse that they do not have in non-attorney states. In other words, if things do not go as the borrower expects - ie if they are not told they have a prepayment penalty - or if fees appear on the closing statement that are improper (like recording fees that are inflated, for example) - the attorney may well be on the hook with the state bar whereas there is no such organization in non-attorney states to which NSA's must answer.

The other difference, I think, does involve the way the closing is conducted - it comes from the fact that I am responsible to the state bar first and the lender or title company second. And there is some grey area here where some attorneys might not approach certain situations the same way I do. But let me try an example to illustrate this.

Last month I went to a borrower's home for a closing and, in the course of the signing, the borrowers mentioned that they had been trying to sell their house because they were planning to move to another state. Now, I knew that their note had a pre-payment feature on it, and, with the specific knowledge that the house was on the market, I felt obligated as an attorney (not as an NSA) to tell them how much that was going to cost them if they were able to sell in the penalty period. Normally I would have explained that feature in a more general way, but in this particular case I calculated the exact figure. Not surprisingly, they ended up refusing to sign, and I ended up back there a week later with new docs without the penalty.

If I had been an NSA in a non-attorney state, I am not sure I would have drawn that much attention to the penalty. I could have explained it honestly, but in a way that probably could have salvaged the signing, and I would have never had to worry about any state bar investigator asking me why I didn't articulate a connection between a house on the market and a new 250k loan with a 2% penalty.

Some may view this as "commenting on the terms of the loan" - a big no-no in the loan signing business. I view it as full disclosure and nothing more - I didn't care if they signed or not, but I did care that they understood completely the ramifications of the terms of the loan. And even if it does qualify as "commenting on the terms of the loan" - my obligation to lender and title company come second to my obligation to the bar, so if the 2 conflict I have to adhere to the latter every time.

That being said - 95% of the time there would be no practical difference. There is nothing magical about GA closings. And while I do truly believe there is a benefit to attorney-only, I doubt those benefits are the real reason for the rule. I am sure the economic considerations for members of the bar are the real driving force behind the rule.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 5/4/08 9:32pm
Msg #246306

Re: Here are the differences as I see them

I appreciate the response. As for the pre-payment penalty. I can see where if they were going to sell soon hearing the exact amount of the penalty instead of a % would have more of an impact in their decision to sign. Glad to hear their is basically no difference in the actual closing process other than your ability to explain ramifications and interpret the documents. I feel comfortable pointing out the facts on the documents and referring them to their LO if they want an explanation or clarification of a document. It may take a little longer getting a hold of the LO and having them explain the doc, but the liability is not mine to bear. Thanks again for your response, very enlightening.

Reply by BobbiCT on 5/5/08 7:01am
Msg #246326

Attorney differences ...

Nicely put, GA/Atty.
Not wanting to put myself out of business. Although Conn. is "on the fence" at the moment, similar to Conn. re obligations to disclose, liabilities, malpractice insurance coverage, and "legal" explanations with potential ramifications to borrowers. A Conn. attorney representation fee isn't that much more (or sometimes less) than the settlement "fee" and often "title endorsement fees" added to the borrowers' costs. Also, Conn. has a fund which is paid into by Conn. attorneys for any claims of attorney defalcation. In non-legalese, if your attorney messes up and you have a valid financial loss because of it, make a claim to the fund. The fund has $$$$ in it and it has been paying out for years! (Not every attorney is perfect.) Non-attorneys don't have to follow the same requirements/restrictions, don't have that same high malpractice coverage, and there's no fund to collect from if we practice law or the borrowers mess up simply by not knowing to ask the question or don't get a full picture from a limited, lender-biased answer.

The difference: Here the consumer has a choice to 1) go it alone or 2) hire an attorney to get legal advice and representation. Sometimes it works and saves money; sometimes it doesn't.

Reply by Trinity Mobile Notary and Signing Agency - Notary and Processing on 5/6/08 1:06am
Msg #246409

Well as you know there are other documents that need notarization so thats part of the reason the company was founded and the doors are still open. When there is a need for an attorney in Ga, we get one. I am an assistant here and I posed the question about Notary Bay, not the owners. Guess that was not a good move. I got plenty of PM on that too.