Posted by Pat/CA on 5/31/08 9:57am
Msg #249477

"Fishy" timeshare loan docs?

My daughter, a signing agent in Oregon, phoned me at midnight with questions for an 8 am signing. I've never done a set of docs for a timeshare (this one is in Florida) but to me, there are too many questionables in them. If anyone can give me info as to experience with timeshare docs and your opinions on my concerns below I'd appreciate it.

1. Owner should NOT date any documents except on the Warranty Deed & Mortgage pg. 2. (This the craziest thing I've heard of in a long time... I would NEVER sign and not date any document, let alone a legally binding contract!).

2) A BLANK loan app with instructions to have brwr. complete it! (plain stupid & waste of notary's time!).

3) Do NOT print a set of loan docs to leave with the borrower (although they have a 10 day recission).

4. One payment only for a lump sum of approx. 20k due 1 year from the date notary notarizes docs, along with an estimated closing date of "6 months from 1st payment date" (which would be 18 months from today, the day the notary signs). This one I do not understand. Why would a closing date be 18 months from now... better stated, 6 months after brwr has paid-off the loan in full?

5. A Credit Card Authorization Form (for $146.00 taxes) with all the credit card info and signature required but again, do not date the date line. (Not that big of deal, just odd to me that about 10 signature pages have instructions not to date the doc).

6. Don't date the Purchase Agreement, although this is where the 10-day recission rights are stated!

That's pretty much it. I realize for the most part that on the docs requiring notarizations it could easily be argued that was the date borrower signed. And really, ditto for the other docs. But why would instructions be very clear NOT to date these docs?

Since she's a fairly new loan signer and since she lives in OR with the property in FL and I'm not experienced in timeshare docs, I told her there very well may be an explanation BUT IMHO unless I had these questions answered to my satisfaction I would not perform this signing.

This is from The Family of Orange Lake Resorts in Kissimmee, FL.

Again, any input would be valuable. TIA

Reply by Les_CO on 5/31/08 10:09am
Msg #249480

First of all none of this in the notary's business. She should just follow the instructions, and have the borrower/purchaser sign the documents as directed, and follow Oregon notary law. If there is any kind of vesting instrument on a FL property it will require witnesses. If the borrower has any questions have them contact the time share company.

Reply by sue_pa on 5/31/08 10:36am
Msg #249486

Agreed. Absolutely none of your daughter's business. NOTHING in the paperwork is
EVER her business unless SHE is being asked to do something illegal. If she is new, her job is to get signatures where required. If and when she survives in this business, she will at some point learn what things to question - the questions you have will NEVER be her concern.

I did a time share purchase last week - docs to borrowers. It took them longer to fill out the application than it did to sign the rest of the paperwork. If I get another, I'll have them fill that out prior to my arrival.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/31/08 10:46am
Msg #249490

I did one yesterday for Hilton, two notarizations, fifty pages. Last week another for a Nevada Co. I think 38 pages, one notarization. Some companies send the doc's to the borrower, some are edocs, with a copy for the borrower, some send back a copy of the signed doc's. All easy. Most time consuming thing is filling out the credit report. I've done properties in Fl, CO, NY and HI. Different States different rules.

Reply by lindetteh_PA on 5/31/08 10:58am
Msg #249491

What the documents say may not be any of your daughters buisness if the borrower had them already and she just notorized them however I wonder how it would play out in court if the judge asked her why she as the signing agent instructed the signers not to date the form that outlines the RTC and her not leaving copies of the docs with the borrowers. Do you think she could get away with saying the TC told me to. I personaly would not do a signing that I thought the borrower was being scammed with all the talk recently about the E&O only covering notorial errors I would think twice about opening myself up to a potential law suit where the company could easily blame me. I would tell her to keep a copy of the intructions just in case

Reply by Les_CO on 5/31/08 11:16am
Msg #249494

Written instructions from the seller/lender are NOT instructions from the notary/signing agent.

If the notary feels something is amiss perhaps she should not do the signing. I suppose there are scams out there, and one should knot knowingly participate in any of them. Or just do anything that goes against your conscience. I for one will not work for JG Wentworth.

Reply by Pat/CA on 5/31/08 12:03pm
Msg #249499

Thanks! It's the too many questionables that are suspect

I appreciate everyone's input and I did remind her last night of what our responsibilities as a notary are. However, it's BECAUSE these were e-docs, with specific instructions not to leave a copy with the borrowers, and the dating issues, and incomplete pages (I forgot to mention) that I threw this out there.

I agree that in the event this was questioned in a court of law, my daughter could be held liable for some of these issues.

Had these papers been complete and borrower allowed to date them, I would have loved to have this simple of a signing.

Again, for me, it's the ethics that are involved and as mentioned, and as she & I discussed, when it comes down to ethics, that overrides all sense of duty or money to be made. In other words, if the questions aren't answered by the company to your satisfaction and according to the laws, don't do the signing.

She spoke with the signing company early this morning and they told her these were normal procedures, so she declined and apologized and told them she feels unfamiliar with this type of requests that she cannot feel confident in completing it.

Thanks again everyone (and anyone else who wants to chime in).