Posted by GWest on 11/20/08 4:20pm
Msg #270149

Michigan Property signing in California

I have a signing tomorrow for property in Michigan. Is there anything special I should know regarding recording requirements, color ink, etc.? I plan on using a California Acknowledgement and have not heard back from the TC as to whether that will present a problem or not.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 11/20/08 5:17pm
Msg #270152

Grace
I don't know on the ink colour. But Michigan no longer requires witnesses for mortgages. And all states accept notary acknowledgments and jurats that are in compliance with the issuing states. So your California acknowledgment will be accepted in Michigan.

Reply by Mia on 11/20/08 5:45pm
Msg #270153

There is not a Michigan MCL for ink color, however I have heard (hearsay) of some
County Registrars that would not record because of the ink color. So if you use Black
ink -- I don't think there will be a problem.

Standard Recording Requirements:
Name printed or typed beneath all written signatures. MCLA 565.201 (a) (e)

No discrepancy in the names shall exist between the printed names of such person, as appears either in the signature, the acknowledgment or jurat. MCLA 565.201 (b)

Instruments conveying or mortgaging any interest in real estate shall state the marital status of any male grantors. MCLA 565.221

The addresses of all the second parties must appear on any instrument by which title to any interest therein is conveyed, assigned, encumbered or otherwise disposed of. MCLA 565.201 (a) (f)

The name and address of the person who drafted the document must appear on the documents executed in Michigan. MCLA 565.201 A, 565.203

Documents purporting to convey or encumber real estate executed in Michigan must have an acknowledgment by a notary public. MCLA 565.8

A certified copy of the death certificate or proof of death must be recorded when the instrument of conveyance states "survivor" in the grantor’s section. MCLA 565.48

Court orders must be certified and sealed by the clerk of the court to be eligible for recording. MCLA 565.401, 565.411

There must be sufficient space available on the document to apply the recording information or an additional page fee must be paid (i.e. there must be a) 2 ½" margin at the top of the first page; b) ½ " margin at the top of each successive page; c) ½" side and bottom margins on each page).

The Definition of a Page: One side of a single sheet of paper not larger that 8 ½" x 14" with print not smaller than 10 point type, which shall be legible and on paper of not less than 20 (standard copy weight) pound weight. MCLA 565.201 (g)

Recording Requirements for Specific Document Types:
Mortgages - Legal description

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 11/20/08 9:10pm
Msg #270177

Piggybackin on Mia

I have had personal experience with both Oakland and Wayne County clerks (S.E. Michigan, Metro Detroit) rejecting the mortgage because the borrowers signed in BLUE. They used to allow it if the notary part was written in black, but now they seem to want every signature to be in black.

As for the CA acknowledgement, unless it is required by the State of CA that you only use their acknowledgements, I'd use the one that is printed on the mortgage. That is the acknowledgement that MI clerks are used to looking at. Why reinvent the wheel?

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/20/08 7:12pm
Msg #270156

<<< Is there anything special I should know regarding recording requirements, color ink, etc.?>>>

I'm quite surprised at your question as your comments in profile state years of experience in Escrow and Real Estate. Your question sounds like a newbie question.

<<<......as to whether that will present a problem or not. >>>

Since when is it ever a problem to follow your own states rules when notarizing for out of state property? If there would be anything "special", that would come from written instructions from the TC. Yeah, I understand about great customer service and all of that, but why take on what isn't really your concern? Your concern is CA notarial laws... and that's all your obligated to follow.

Very surprised by this question coming from you, GWest.

Reply by GWest on 11/20/08 7:17pm
Msg #270157

I have had several problems over the years with out of state recorders not accepting California Acknowledgements, so therefore this is not a newbie question. Just this year I have had two out of state recorders not accept a California Acknowledgement. In California we can use an out of state acknowledgement form provided that we don't state the capacity of the signor, but I prefer to use a California Acknowledgement when ever possible. I alway ask, because if I don't and the loan/purchase does not close because of something I have done, I don't want to be liable.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/20/08 7:29pm
Msg #270159

<<<Just this year I have had two out of state recorders not accept a California Acknowledgement.>>>

On what grounds?

<<<I alway ask, because if I don't and the loan/purchase does not close because of something I have done, I don't want to be liable.>>>

What could be the "charge" for a CA notary properly notarizing signatures on an out-of-state property?

Reply by GWest on 11/20/08 7:37pm
Msg #270161

You would have to ask the County Recorder "On what grounds?" But per the California Handbook I can use an out of state acknowledgement provided capacity is not mentioned, maybe that was their grounds, I can not say. It could have just been a bad day for that recorder and they refused to record the document "just because" and therefore an interest rate may be lost, or whatever.

I am not worried with what the charge would be but as I stated, as a Signing Agent, I believe we are much more than Notary Public's. Maybe they could not sue me if I did not notarize the document as required by a particular out of state county recorder, but why even go there and delay a closing for someone, if I just took a few extra minutes to find out if there could possible be a problem.

Reply by GWest on 11/20/08 7:30pm
Msg #270160

As Signing Agent I believe I we more than just a Notary Public. I have information that I refer to for each state. In this document it states:
Common Rejection Reasons for recording:
Notary Acknowledgement incomplete/inadequate
Notary used blue ink (this is why I asked if there was still an ink requirement)
Printed names beneath signatures missing (including notary acknowledgements).

I called the TC as they did not mention any requirements, but as of yet I have not received any response. I will still wait for their response but this is why I ask. I care about the buyer/borrower and don't want them to have a delay in their closing

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/20/08 7:55pm
Msg #270167

If you don't hear back from the TC, it may be safest to use black ink for the signing and on your certs. I make black ink my default color unless I get written instructions to use blue ink. So far, that's worked and I haven't had anything rejected. If I know that I properly notarized signatures for an out-of-state property and the paperwork got rejected, I'd make calls to find out why, I would not leave it up to the clerk "maybe having had a bad day". Like you, I care that the transaction goes to finality and there are no delays for the borrower.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/20/08 9:15pm
Msg #270180

Here ya go - a friendly answer to a legit question =)

I think coming onto YOUR forum and asking a conscientious question - which you actually have the right to do, I might add - about something a bit out of the norm is perhaps one of the very reasons we even HAVE a forum in the first place.

I don't know how Mia missed it, but the hearsay about MI recorders getting squirelly about ink color goes back to [Recording Requirements] MCL 565-201 (iv):

" Is legibly printed in black ink on white paper ..."

Honestly, I do tend to agree that this is one of those things that has taken a life of its own - maybe a few times, a recording actually got kicked back for someone's nit-picky interpretation of the word "printed", and WHAT exactly that encompasses. Still, nobody in MI wants to be the one to test the theory again, and we do our PRINTING in black (venue, names, dates, whatever) but signing in blue is fine.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/20/08 9:52pm
Msg #270187

Re: Here ya go - a friendly answer to a legit question =)

<<<I think coming onto YOUR forum and asking a conscientious question - which you actually have the right to do, I might add - about something a bit out of the norm is perhaps one of the very reasons we even HAVE a forum in the first place.>>>

yeah, yeah.....right, right!

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 11/21/08 8:41pm
Msg #270302

Not always Renee

Two members of our network have recently had docs rejected because the borrowers signed in blue ink. Mine was in Oakland County and the other was was in Wayne county. Now that I Personally know it can and will happen, I'm not willing to chance it any more. I just inform title that there is a pretty good chance that it could be rejected and they have always (so far) infactically state SIGN DOCS IN BLACK!