Posted by Ronda Roaring on 11/25/08 9:00am
Msg #270569

The PayPal thing

So, here's the full story. LSI called me and asked me to conduct a closing on 11/19. I said I would do it if they either put me on the HUD or paid me immediately after the closing via PayPal, I accept e-checks, credit cards and regular PayPal payments. No, they couldn't do that. I said, "It's not that you CAN'T do it, it's that you WON'T." About an hour later they called again. "You've done lots of work for us in the past. We won't go out of business." "I had done lots of work for EFS and Lender's First Choice too, and look what happened. No." So Dynamic Field Solutions called on behalf of LSI and said that they would pay via PayPal. (So it was costing LSI a fee to Dynamic Field Solutions to get the closing done.) I conducted the closing that evening, sent them proof the next morning (Thursday), they paid PayPal before 2:00 pm, FedEx came and got the docs and everything was fine. It took til this morning, Tuesday, for the e-check to clear, and out of $150 I got $145.35, which I transferred to an account, which, because of the holiday, may not arrive until Friday or Monday. I think that once I build up a cadre of clients who don't mind paying via PayPal, I will like this. I already like not having to worry about getting paid for this closing. (I have one from before I set up the PayPal account that's overdue and needs to be rebilled. I dislike that more than the hassles of the PayPal account.) And if other notaries use the PayPal system too, title companies and signing services will set up accounts and this systme will become routine. Every non-notary person I've talked to about this thinks I'm doing the right thing. It's unfortunate that I have to turn down closings, but that's the way life is. The one thing that's kind of a pain is that PayPal will only allow you to use one transfer bank account per Paypal account. In other words, I have another account with PayPal that transfers money into my checking account. I had to come up with another account in which to transfer money for my notary account. I have to figure out on which line of my income tax I should declare the $4.65 PayPal fee. That's the least of my worries.

Reply by Pete/MD on 11/25/08 9:05am
Msg #270570

Just wait until someone reverses a transaction and Paypal takes your $ or gives your account a negative balance. I have had 3 terrible situations with Paypal and they have always sided with the scammer.

www.paypalsucks.com

Reply by Teddog/CO on 11/26/08 7:51am
Msg #270626

Use Google Checkout !

Google Checkout is much cheaper and easier to do business with no problems like FeePay. FeePay has a horrible reputation for very good reasons.
Everyone have a great Thanksgiving

Reply by sue_pa on 11/25/08 9:31am
Msg #270572

Please report back in six months with an actual number of closings you have completed via this "brilliant" method ... I realize you will have to be reporting after you get off work at your "other" job since this one will no longer exist for you. But hey, we all run our business the best we can.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 11/25/08 4:32pm
Msg #270606

Agree. Sue.NSAs would better utilize their time in marketing

their business, rather than spending huge time and effort and turning down
work in an effort to get collection losses down to 0%.
An example was cited of EFS. I am on their BK list for a few hundred $$,
but my receipts from them over the years are well into five figures.
A business that extends credit, and has too low a loss ratio is invariably
passing up profitable clients and further alienating good clients.
I am not condoning companies that do not pay NSAs as agreed, but a certain
degree of credit loss is part an parcel of running a successful business.

Reply by Ronda Roaring on 11/26/08 3:58pm
Msg #270674

Re: Agree. Sue.NSAs would better utilize their time in marketing

I agree that, in general, one should be able to take on a certain amount of loss, and I did. However, 1) I don't feel that I should have had to take on any loss. As a notary, I didn't cheat anyone. I held to my part of the bargain. Why should they not pay me. 2) When I started out as an SA 5.5 years ago, I was the only full-time SA in the 10-county rural area I cover. In some counties, I was the only SA. That was good for awhile, but business has dried up and I need to make sure that I get paid for every closing I do. I keep saying this over and over again and you guys are not getting the message: if you want people to cover rural areas where the amount of work is limited, there can be no margin for non-payment, I must be paid EVERY TIME. And besides, that's my due, and the due of every SA out there. We used to complain about notaries that worked for $50. Every time you don't get paid, you're working for $0. Who's better off, the notary who works for $50 and gets paid or the notary that works for $150 and doesn't?

Reply by Calnotary on 11/25/08 9:37am
Msg #270574

I wouldn't refuse work from LSI even if I will get paid in a month then choose Dynamic Field Solutions for an instant payment. Paypal paymenti is not money in the bank, they can do reverse charges.

Reply by Calnotary on 11/25/08 9:45am
Msg #270576

I forgot to say that Dynamic Field Solutions has one of the worst paying record in this industry, oh this is just my opinion of course!

Reply by NCLisa on 11/25/08 10:09am
Msg #270577

Just wait until PayPal takes all your money!

It happens to everyone that uses PayPal alot. One of their employees tried to wipe out my bank account, but my bank called me and reveresed the charges. Otherwise I would have been out $2500 and nothing to do about it, as PayPal is not a bank, nor regulated by banking guidelines. There is nothing you can do when your money is stolen, or just disappears from their system!

Reply by PAW on 11/25/08 10:29am
Msg #270579

Re: Just wait until PayPal takes all your money!

>>> It happens to everyone that uses PayPal alot. <<<

I use PayPal quite extensively, especially with cross-border transaction processing. I've never had any problems with someone stealing my money. The support at PayPal has been responsive and quick, though their resolution process seems to take a month of Sundays.

As for the PayPal fees, I build that aspect into my pricing models. (I don't use PayPal for signing assignments.) On Schedule "C", I include fees charged in Section V - Other Expenses.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 11/25/08 10:41am
Msg #270583

Second that, Paul ...

Although I don't use it often (only for structured settlement sales and 'RESPA' signings, neither of which I'll do otherwise), I'm more than pleased.

As irony would have it, I just posted about this early this morning elsewhere. I have a 'dedicated' bank account used solely for sending/received via PayPal. Once money goes in, I removed it by transfering it out to another bank account immediately. Never does a dime sit in the PP-dedicated account.

I did have a credit card on PayPal (as one of my verified accounts), and I only had that there to use to pay for things I might buy through PayPal. That card was hacked into through PayPal as the portal - and the hacking was caught by them within minutes. Working jointly, PayPal and U.S. Bank locked everything down, cancelled that credit card, and of course I was not charged a dime.

I no longer have anything but that 'dedicated' bank account verified on my PayPal account, and again, never a dime in that account. If I want to pay for something with PayPal, I first transfer the needed amount into that bank account, and then pay via PayPal - who pulls it from that account.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 11/25/08 12:25pm
Msg #270590

Re: Just wait until PayPal takes all your money!

I had issues with paypal after being with them for 10 years. I canceled my account. Fortunately, because of all the bad press that Paypal has received lately, I had some safeguards on my end, but I decided it wasn't worth it, especially since my credit union offered me a more secure and less expensive method of receiving payments. If you feel that you must take instant payments or you won't work for that company, then I suggest you get with your bank or credit union as they may offer a more secure method of collecting plus save you some fees in the process, especially if you have a minimum deposit on hand with them.

Reply by HudsonBayCA on 11/25/08 2:12pm
Msg #270602

Re: Just wait until PayPal takes all your money! They took

$2000 from me because of a hacker.

Reply by LKT/CA on 11/25/08 12:55pm
Msg #270593

I used to have a paypal account.....too many problems....I have a merchant account with Google Checkout. They charge 2% plus 20 cents a transaction. I also have a Google Adwords account so since I link the two - my processing is FREE up to the budget amount I set. With Adwords.....you set the budget of how much you want to spend on advertising each month. That amount... times ten.... is what you get in free processing. Once the credit card is processed, the money goes straight to my bank account within 2 days. I do not have to go into Google Checkout and do any transfering of anything....like you do with paypal.

And best of all.....NO CONTRACT with Google Adwords...I can cancel anytime!!! Even if you don't have an Adwords account.....2% plus 20 cents a transaction is not bad at all.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 11/25/08 8:34pm
Msg #270613

I still can't imagine how anyone thinks they can run a successful business this way, but if it works for you then by all means go for it.

A couple of questions. You said:

"So, here's the full story."

Actually, it's just an anecdote. The "full story" would be how many potential clients you pitched this to, and how many agreed to go along with it. So far, we know about one; are there others? How many have turned you down?

You also said:

"I conducted the closing that evening, sent them proof the next morning (Thursday), they paid PayPal before 2:00 pm, FedEx came and got the docs and everything was fine."

You said in your earlier message that you were planning to hold the docs until you were paid. What would you have done if payment wasn't received before FedEx showed up?

You also said:

"It's unfortunate that I have to turn down closings, but that's the way life is. The one thing that's kind of a pain is that PayPal will only allow you to use one transfer bank account per Paypal account. "

I would think it would be more of a pain to be intentionally refusing business, but maybe that's just me...

And then there's this:

"I have to figure out on which line of my income tax I should declare the $4.65 PayPal fee. That's the least of my worries."

Finally, something I can agree with completely...

Reply by Frank/NC on 11/25/08 9:45pm
Msg #270617

Why would you ask LSI to do anything other than give you the job. They happen to be an excellent company to work with. Also, how long do you think you can ask for paypal payments from your clients and expect to stay in business? You say that you like not having to worry about getting paid for the closing but it sounds like you may not have to worry about answering your phone soon. I don't know how long you've been in business but it sounds like your worries may be over sooner than you expect.

Reply by Ronda Roaring on 11/26/08 3:44pm
Msg #270672

Response to Mike and Frank

Frank: My biggest concern in not staying in business. My biggest concern is getting paid for the work I do. LSI may be an excellent company, but so were EFS, Lender's for Choice and all the other companies that went bust that I worked for. I insist on being paid for the work I do.

Mike:

>>How many have turned you down?
I think the number is 4.
>>What would you have done if payment wasn't received before FedEx showed up?
Hold the docs.
>>I would think it would be more of a pain to be intentionally refusing business, but maybe that's just me...
There are probably others who think like you, but I'm not one of them. I'm not a business-at-all-costs person. I did 6 closings for EFS and haven't been paid a penny. What good does that do?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/26/08 7:18pm
Msg #270681

Frightening..and very very dangerous...

"What would you have done if payment wasn't received before FedEx showed up?
Hold the docs"

Wow...you have no right to do this...

Reply by MikeC/NY on 11/28/08 5:07pm
Msg #270734

Re: Response to Mike and Frank

">>How many have turned you down?
I think the number is 4."

Four no, one yes. So far, 80% of your potential customers said no. This still sounds like a good business plan to you?

">>What would you have done if payment wasn't received before FedEx showed up?
Hold the docs."

Whatever the disagreement on your business model, you have to understand that doing something like this is opening yourself up to a world of hurt as far as legal liability is concerned.

Holding signed docs until you're paid is just nuts. EVERY party in the transaction - borrower, lender, TC, whatever - could sue you if the deal goes south because of your deliberate actions to interfere. Are you prepared for that??