Posted by Joan Bergstrom on 10/21/08 12:27am
Msg #267856

2009 California law changes & fewer CA Notaries

Not much:
1.State, City, County workers I.D. is acceptable as long they contain the picture, serial number/etc as the other I.D's we can accept.

Subscribing witness:
1. Personal Knowledge between the notary and the Subscribing Witness is no long allowed.

2. The subscribing witness must bring a credible witness who knows the notary and must be known by subscribing witness.

3. The credible witness must present I.D. to the notary.

4. The SW signs the notary journal. The CW signs the notary journal or the notary records the paper ID information for the CW in the journal.

I have been posting over the last year that we will have a huge decline in CA notaries and our CA Sec of State is estimating 35-40 thousand less notaries for 2008 than we had in 2007.

My guess for 2009 is another 35,000 fewer CA notaries and I think my estimate is probably too conservative.

The notary schools in CA are only getting approx 20-25% of the students who attended before August 2007.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/21/08 12:41am
Msg #267857

Physical description is one of 4 elements of the gov't issued ID requirement. Other than a driver's license or State ID card, what State, City or County WORKER I.D. has a physical description on it?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/21/08 1:22am
Msg #267858

There are several reasons for the decline...

1) We are coming to an end of the first 4-year period since the state has been requiring mandatory education courses. Some "older" notaries simply aren't renewing their commissions because it's too much trouble or money. Others are those who rushed to become notaries before the law took effect... and aren't renewing either.

2) The state of the economy over the last year has had an impact, too. Becoming a notary in CA isn't exactly free and some people don't want to put out the money necessary for training, exams, background check, oath/bond, etc.

3) It was this time last year that it was announced that new and renewing CA notaries must pass an FBI criminal check as well as a state criminal check. I'm sure that weeds out a whole lot of potential notaries who have criminal records out of state, but not in CA.

4) California notary law, in the past few years, has been becoming increasingly more strict and in the last year or two adding all those additional fines as well as perjury to the acks and jurats probably scares some people off.


Frankly, I'm okay with all the extra rules. I normally don't like all of the over regulation from the state, but people tend to forget that notaries aren't just glorified witnesses with a rubber stamp. They are public servants who have been given a serious legal responsibility and authority to certify signatures and verify identities of signers of the most sensitive and complicated documents. It isn't a responsibility that any John Doe off the street should be able to perform just because he wants to. I think the extra background checks are one of the biggest reasons for the decline. I mean, really, the idea of an FBI check can be a little daunting just by hearing the letters F-B-I. Hahahah.

Personally? I think the current training isn't good enough. I believe, 100%, that nobody new to the field who takes a 6-hour seminar followed by the exam is going to have all of the knowledge they need to be a good notary. There is simply too much material to remember. Those seminars are meant to teach how to pass the exam... not how to be a notary. And the exam... it's only 30 questions, and you only have to pass 21 of them. And yet... lots of people still manage to fail it. The test isn't that difficult at all... you just have to pay attention to what they're asking you and have a good, solid knowledge of the handbook.

Even with that, though... it's so much more than the majority of notaries in this country have to do. I find that sad. I know it's like preaching to the choir here, but there are so many really, really... oh, I'm just going to say it, stupid people who manage to get a commission.

Anyway... what I find ironic is that with the apparent lack of notary applications, the SOS still manages to have a 3-4 month time frame for processing commissions.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/21/08 1:54am
Msg #267859

Marian: Just a Fabulous Post and 100% correct

Mariam
Thanks,
I will post tomorrow about a change in the fingerprinting requirements for CA notaries who don't get to their county recorder in 30 days to become a CA notary.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/21/08 1:59am
Msg #267860

Re: Marian: Just a Fabulous Post and 100% correct

I meant the county clerk, not the county recorder

Reply by sue_pa on 10/21/08 8:36am
Msg #267863

outsiders point of view

Perhaps some of the decline is due to individuals not being lead into believing they can make a fortune at being a 'signing agent'. Of course everyone makes their own decisions and I don't feel sorry for the ones who got snookered - and those of you who made money snookering them, well at least you had time to teach classes during the busiest boom of our lives when you could have been working in the field 18 hours a day (wonder why that is ... those who can do, those who can't teach ...) but instead chose to lead some down the path ...

Again, I'm not in CA but the advertising 'saturation' for 'signing agents' must have been tremendous for me (on the other coast) to know about the media and print advertising that went on for several years.

Reply by Becca_FL on 10/21/08 9:51am
Msg #267864

Sue: Just a Fabulous Post and 100% correct n/m

Reply by 101livescan on 10/21/08 9:51am
Msg #267865

Re: INSIDER'S point of view

To Snooker: Slang.

1. To lead (another) into a situation in which all possible choices are undesirable; trap.
2. To fool; dupe

I know that in my notary/loan signing classes, I had a lot of very bright students who went on to make excellent money as notary/loan signing agents. I never felt that I was "duping" any one. I actually was amazed at how many people went on to become loan officers after becoming a signing agent because the closing statement was clear about who was making the "big" money.

Of course, there are going to be fewer fish in the stream. The new laws and the most recently passed laws make it abundantly clear that the FEDS are not fooling around. If a notary has a checkered background involving issues of moral turpitude from other states than CA, they will not be commissioned in the State of California.

Years ago, I enrolled in a massage class, it was during Desert Storm, and the class was overbooked with students. The school was delighted with enrollment. However, only 3 of my classmates in that session are still doing massage, it's not for everyone, very hard on one's psyche and physical being. They were not duped or fooled into taking the class. Everyone has a choice of "going outside of the box" for new economic ventures.

A lot of people who were successful in becoming commissioned notaries, still couldn't figure out if they should use a jurat or an acknowledgment, or where they should affix their stamp. Some students had to come back and begin the application process all over again because when their commission did come in the mail, they thought it was junk mail and threw it in the round can. This business is not for everyone. It takes focus, dedication and willingness and commitment to being compliant. My message to students, always, "this is not a cake walk". You have to carefully market yourself in a way that make you stand out over any one else and send a compelling message to the industry as to WHY YOU ARE IN THE BEST NOTARY/LOAN SIGNING AGENT in the business.

At any rate, due to the state of our economic climate nationally, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this industry is flat, unlike the industry it was from 2002 to 2006. The deals are fewer and far between. I'm sure there are hundreds of notaries in my own geographic area who will not renew due to all the new requirements by the SOS, DOJ and the FBI, and because the phone is no longer ringing off the hook.

This is a career that only those who are committed to performing the highest quality notary work and have figured out how to make it in non-loan related business will hang in there. I will renew my commission over and over again until I decide I don't want to. Most people have placed "retirement" on hold. I don't see myself retiring ever, and this is a great way to make a living on a full time or part time business, no matter what is happening in the loan industry.

By the way, as I taught notary classes, I was still doing a lot of signing before, during and after classes, on the way to class and back home again. So I didn't forfeit much signing work due to notary/loan signing class schedules.

We all have to re-engineer ourselves over and over again during these economic tides.

Reply by Becca_FL on 10/21/08 10:26am
Msg #267872

Remember this post?

Re: Business is slow...but, why, SO slow?
Posted by Melissa Liberty of CA on 9/17/08 9:52pm Msg #264536

Just my 2 cents...I also started back up my loan signing certification courses at a couple of local community centers..People STILL think that they are gonna make $100,000 a year being a notary! Oh well, gotta thank the good ole' NNA for that fabulous commercial. Kick started my classes that’s for sure! (At least they're good for something???) Wink

Reply by 101livescan on 10/21/08 10:49am
Msg #267874

Re: Remember this post?

Yes, I do, and there are a ton of "get rich quick" classes out there: How to Get Rich in Foreclosures; Short Sales; Loan Modifications...the list goes on....there are no short cuts, it all takes hard work. I usually have a dozen or so people at my foreclosure sales with the expectation they are going to "clean up" at the sale site. Gotta have cash or cashiers check, pull a PTR to make sure of other liens on the property, sometimes the IRS is in FIRST POSITION with the lender. Judgments for unpaid alimony/child support, HOA dues, mechanics liens, fines and penalties for criminal activity. Interesting times. For me, I'd wait til the property goes back to the lender and they have a chance to get their arms around the REAL collateral damage.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/21/08 7:15pm
Msg #267904

Re: Remember this post? You've gotta explain to me how

"...sometimes the IRS is in FIRST POSITION with the lender"

I'd love to hear an explanation as to how this works. Frankly, I d just love to hear your definition of this occurrence!

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/22/08 12:54am
Msg #267918

Re: outsiders point of view

Sue

I taught 4-5 classes a month during the boom times so I certainly had time to do signings. I usually signed over 60 per month and forwarded approx 30 more per month to my notary friends and my son (James) in Riverside CA during the "boom" times.

Now, I take all the loans and I am doing approx 30-35 this month and there are no loans in the Inland Empire that I give to anyone else.


I am not someone who teaches and doesn't do and I have been doing this since 2002.

Reply by 101livescan on 10/21/08 10:12am
Msg #267870

Credible witness ID requirement changes are a direct result of FBI Mortgage Fraud Investigation findings, according to my resources here in SB county. As to the Subscribing Witness changes, my own guess is that the SOS is trying to bring everything into alignment, ID for everyone, no personal knowledge going forward. The ID changes, hmmm....just expanding ID options, but how many government agencies are going to change their ID formats to meet the SOS requirements?

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/21/08 3:10pm
Msg #267885

"I have been posting over the last year that we will have a huge decline in CA notaries and our CA Sec of State is estimating 35-40 thousand less notaries for 2008 than we had in 2007."

Do you think there's a reason why there's a decline? How many less real estate transactions did California have in 2008 compared to 2007? And what's your expert (cough cough) prediction for 2009? Once again, you're only presenting the portion of the picture that suits your interests and encouraging people to pursue an occupation that has dried up for so many, especially in CA. Shame on you for putting your own greed first.

I can't wait to see how tomorrow's post once again skews the facts to your benefit.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/22/08 1:41am
Msg #267919

What part of my post encourages people to be CA Notaries?

Calif is the most difficult state to be a notary in the United States and we have usually had the fewest per capita notaries in the United States by a great number.

Here are the hurdles to being a CA notary in my opnion.

1. Test every 4 years (Test is changed every month)

2. Fingerprints taken every 4 years and sent to the DOJ & FBI ($80 more or less)

3. Passport photo attached to application every 4 years ($5-$10)

4. Background application (if you don't file your oath and bond with the county clerk in 30 days to get sworn in as a notary) you have to have to submit a new application and get your fingerprints taken a 2nd time to submit ($100 including the new application and fingerprinting scan).

5. You must purchase a $15,000 surety bond ($38 for 4 years)


6. You change your business or residence and you don't notify the Sec of State of your new address you are subject to a $500 fine.

7. Failure to obtain proper evidence of identification of a person making an ACK ($10,000 fine) We don't use "personal knowledge beginning Jan 1, 2008)

8. Falsifying an Act is forgery punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for up to 1 year (this means back dating the notarial certificate and notarizing for people not personally in front of the notary.) $10,000 fine.

9. Failure to obtain a fingerprint when required is a $2,500 fine. CA requires it for the real estate docs such as Deed of Trust and POA to name a few.

10. Completiton of a 6 hour study period or class attendance.

There is more stuff but this is enough.

Sure, the loan meltdown has stopped many in that industry from becoming notaries in CA but the new 2008 laws put the icing on the cake in my opinion, while, I think they are great laws, it has changed the notary industry.

To answer Michaael: I think we will have 35,000 less notaries in 2009 than we had in 2008: this is my guess and time will see if I am on target.

Maybe there are people who think we will have more CA Notaries in 2009 and I welcome their comments.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/22/08 1:45am
Msg #267920

Number 8. should be falsifying an ACK n/m

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/22/08 1:10pm
Msg #267938

The part where you once again tell us about the huge decline in CA notaries. You may not have come out and said it this time, but you've said it plenty of times in the past that CA isn't over-saturated, there's great opportunity for newbies, CA needs more NSAs, blah blah blah. Come on. You think we're stupid. We all know what you're getting at. You're Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. The same thing over and over again.

Reply by HudsonBayCA on 10/21/08 4:10pm
Msg #267894

Re: 2009 California law changes & fewer CA Notaries - Wow!

Retirement was thought of but after reading this post, I will keep on keeping on. It always amazed me that people with 9 to 5 jobs would quit same thinking they could make $100,000 per year in notarizations (which they probably almost did in the "fat" years), but now the "lean" times are here and only those who had back up monies along with their notarizations can wait out the mortgage crisis. I am one of those notaries public who can wait it out. I tried to advise new notaries public that times like these would come about but would they listen? No.

Reply by Sherry_CA on 10/22/08 12:51pm
Msg #267937

Re: 2009 California law changes & fewer CA Notaries - Wow!

Marian, GREAT POST!!!