Posted by NCsignguy on 10/14/08 9:32am
Msg #267230

87.50 closing

87.50 closing
75 to do the signing
12.50 For printing docs

These were companies that were paying 125.00 for closing several months ago. Has anyone else had these offers? I have declined them in he past but these are a firm offers no counter offer and no call back later in the day. I guess 87.50 is better then sitting home but has anyone really found theses to be worth doing? I really don’t like to leave the house for under a 100.00 but those days maybe gone

Reply by NCLisa on 10/14/08 9:35am
Msg #267232

I would not take it! If you do, you are lowering fees for the rest of us in the area. I still receive my regular fees for all my closings. And while I'm not as busy as I was 6 months ago, I'm still fairly busy.

Reply by Notary01 on 10/14/08 10:24am
Msg #267235

You must live in a different world than I live in.

$87.50 or $90 or $100 is now good pay. I did a closing last week and the lender was CitiBank. They had the borrower sign a form that if they were paying more than $100 for a closing then they were paying too much; that CitiBank did not authorize it.

I wish that the $125 and $150 of days past would come back but in the meantime I have to put food on the table and I am down from 40 to 60 closings a month to 10 to 20.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/14/08 10:34am
Msg #267236

And Notary01, I don't know what world you're living in

but my orders are all in excess of $125.00 each - the exceptions being the likes of o/n docs, cash deals under 20 miles one wa (have one tomorrow) $100....

Maybe you need to expand your marketing...MHO

Reply by NCLisa on 10/14/08 10:40am
Msg #267237

It is still between $100 and $150 in this area. It has always been that in this area, we never had the $200 and up days others did. We've only been a non-attorney closing state since 2003. We are also not as saturated with notaries, but because NSA's are relatively new in this state, we have a very high number of people that should NOT be doing closings.

Reply by Becca_FL on 10/14/08 10:47am
Msg #267238

Notary01 - I would personally like to thank you for lowering

the standard fee for Florida NSAs. I'm still getting $125-$175 and have no problem turning down lowball offers. It's the suckers like you that are helping to bring down the value of the service that an NSA provides. Congratulations.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/14/08 11:15am
Msg #267244

I am with Becca on everything she says

RARELY do I accept any full refis for less than $125.
Mods are the only exception to the rule.
It's people like Notary01 who accept the paltry fees who are making us ALL suffer.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/14/08 10:50am
Msg #267240

Then perhaps if your volume has dropped so much and you've also dropped your fees to subpar levels, you shouldn't be in this line of work ... sometimes it's best to cut your losses and move on ... get a fulltime job and if you so desire, supplement it with this work at acceptable fee levels.

I'm curious about the exact wording of the form. What is the $100 exactly for? EVERYONE, including CitiBank, knows that a 'closing' costs more than $100 - curious because I'm guessing you/they are addressing something specific.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/14/08 11:19am
Msg #267245

Time to: 1. stand firm 2. reduce caloric intake 3. cut expenses and/or 4. get a job.

I followed all of the above advice: got a job, not what I wanted, but I did want to eat; called all my creditors and cut expenses by threatening to move my services or totally remove them and have great negotiating experiences under my belt; I am eating less and not as high on the hog, but still eating from the hog; and I have stood firm. I am not lowering my fees below my expected profit margins. Yes, I work less, but I am happier as I can live with myself without self-doubt, recriminations and self-questioning. I wish you the same...give it a try...

But, get out of your cycle of self-pity.

Reply by Virginia/PA on 10/14/08 10:48am
Msg #267239

It is 10/14 and I have only had TWO signings the ENTIRE MONTH so far. If someone offered me $87.50 I would probably take it. It's better than starving.

Reply by Sandra Clark on 10/14/08 11:00am
Msg #267242

Thanks to all of the notaries holding firm and not taking $87.50 for closings. I refuse to let the big guys (lenders, brokers etc.) who are making the big bucks lower my standard fee. I have seen the the work the $87.50 notaries turn out and yes, I have been called in to correct their shabby work. Just did one where the deed signatures were missed. I collected a nice fee and the promise that I would be called for any future work in my area.

Reply by Sheik407 on 10/14/08 11:52am
Msg #267247

I too have only had 2 signings this month and it is very tough,but I refuse to even open my garage for anything less than $125 and it must be in my immediate area for that amount. Stand firm and don't let them make us cheap calls.

Reply by Alice/MD on 10/14/08 12:00pm
Msg #267248

I don't hold a sale in this business....I expect highs and lows. When my clients calls for me to lower my fee I tell them my fee is fixed. Sometimes they call back and sometimes they find the $87.50 closer. That is their choice.

Reply by Steven Pearce on 10/14/08 12:23pm
Msg #267251

One of my last signings the SS tried to talk me down from 200, nope - long drive, good luck and thanks for calling. They called back to accept my fee. Then I saw they were getting 450! and they wanted to talk ME down!

Reply by SOCAL/CA on 10/14/08 12:53pm
Msg #267259

When you factor in your overhead, you are working for free. Got to work for McDonalds.

Reply by bhb/VA on 10/14/08 1:22pm
Msg #267267

I just received a call for an $85.00 closing. I quoted my usual price and, needless to say, have not been called back. By the time I wait for docs (and sometimes wait & wait), print them and go over them, drive, sign, drive home & go over them again (yes, I am anal and do go over them one last time before sending them off) and drive to drop them off at Fedex, $85.00 just doesn't even pay minimum wage. And then Uncle Sam gets his share out of what is left. Does anyone care about QUALITY work anymore?

Reply by Philip Johnson on 10/14/08 2:57pm
Msg #267290

"$85.00 just doesn't even pay minimum wage"

Somewhat overstated don't you think? The minimum wage in VA is $7.39 which when divided into 85 equals 11.5 hours worked. If it takes you 1.5 days to do a signing, it maybe time to find something else.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/14/08 6:23pm
Msg #267329

come on Philip, we know you know better than that

We are businesses and as such have expenses. Your "formula" first has to subtract out direct costs for a particular job (paper, toner, gas) and then the other costs (equipment, dues, fees, vehicle depreciation, phone and internet services, office costs, insurance. Wages - including not only a livable wage but also holiday, sick pay, personal days, etc. Oh my, I'm self employed. I need health insurance and I personally have disability. What about retirement, and how about some profit because we are, again, businesses.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/14/08 3:02pm
Msg #267291

"By the time I wait for docs (and sometimes wait & wait), print them and go over them, drive, sign, drive home & go over them again (yes, I am anal and do go over them one last time before sending them off) and drive to drop them off at Fedex, $85.00 just doesn't even pay minimum wage. And then Uncle Sam gets his share out of what is left. Does anyone care about QUALITY work anymore?"

There is quality and there is overkill. These days you should be looking for ways to cut expenses, not wasting time quadruple checking docs and making extra trips to drop them off because you wanted to check them one last time. There's really no reason to go over the docs when you print them out, nor is there any reason to not trust your ability to check them at the table.

Create less work for yourself on each signing and maybe you'll be able to profitably accept lower fees.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 10/14/08 4:09pm
Msg #267307

Not always do we get all the info we need up front, especially from a signing service. I would rather know ahead of time, if there is anything in the docs, that might need clarification or corrections, before I get to the table. I almost always review docs before hand, (time permitting). How many times have you found incorrect name spellings, wrong attachments sent, a spouse or 2nd signer. Reviewing the docs, prior to going out, makes sense to me.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/14/08 6:32pm
Msg #267334

"How many times have you found incorrect name spellings, wrong attachments sent, a spouse or 2nd signer. Reviewing the docs, prior to going out, makes sense to me."

It happens very infrequently.

Cost Benefit Analysis is a concept every business owner should learn.

http://www.answers.com/topic/cost-benefit-analysist.

When it comes to loan signings, it's not even close. The time cost of reviewing every set of edocs GREATLY exceeds the time cost of just dealing with problems when they come up.

Running your business in a professional manner requires doing things in the most efficient and profitable way. And these days that's more vital than ever. Fees are never going to go back up, so we need to adapt accordingly. And that means cutting out as much fat as you can, and in this industry that means cutting down your average time per signing.

Reply by NCLisa on 10/15/08 10:39am
Msg #267369

Cutting down your time per signing? How is that possible

when the documents in the loan packages is increasing, not going down. Which means that we are using more paper, which has gone up about $10 a case in the last year, plus more toner, etc.

Reply by Derrick/MT on 10/14/08 1:46pm
Msg #267274

$90 is the going price for local closings +edocs in my area.

Reply by Steven Pearce on 10/14/08 3:21pm
Msg #267298

That's the going price because THAT'S what

you accept. Who owns your business??? YOU or the SS?

Do you call the power company and tell them what you are going to pay? No, you pay what they say or you get your power cut off.

I never give them the opportunity to offer me anything. I quote them what I feel is a fair and reasonable fee for my time and services. They can accept or not, but this junk about what they offer is ridiculous. People might as well stand on the corner with a sign asking for handouts.

Don't ask what they pay, tell them what you'd do it for.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/14/08 6:25pm
Msg #267331

Re: That's the going price because THAT'S what

... People might as well stand on the corner with a sign asking for handouts....

My daughter calls me every morning to report how many people donate to the 'homeless' guy at her exit of the interstate every morning. the 5ish minutes it takes her to go through that area has 4-5 people giving him $$$ EVERY day. I just went through that area about 6:45 tonight and he was working the evening shift.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/14/08 1:54pm
Msg #267276

In defense of accepting $85 signings...

I don't because I don't have to and do feel the service I provide is worth more.....but in all fairness to those who do accept because it's all the income they've had in a while, if that $85 meant a week's worth of food on my table or paying for the roof over my head, I'd probably think differently. I don't agree with accepting those fees but have to sympathize with those who ARE in that position. Just my .02

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/14/08 2:29pm
Msg #267282

Re: In defense of accepting $85 signings...

I agree with that. But I also have to remind people that we live in a free market, and if people are going to accept lower fees to get work they will. Do I think they are giving away their services? Perhaps they are. It's all a matter of perspective, though. If a person feels comfortable taking that lower rate and can survive on it, then where's the harm? I think some of the more seasoned notaries here are a bit too uppity and selfish about this thing. If you don't want to leave the house for under $100, then that's fine. But some people will because they can, and you can't really stop them.

On the flip side, these lower paid jobs increase the likelihood of mistakes and problems.

If you want more money, you need to market yourself better and prove to them the YOU are worth more. The idea that everyone rejecting the low fees is as effective as a gas station boycott on a Friday to protest gas prices. It's never worked, and it likely never will.

I'm not above accepting $85 for a signing in *certain* circumstances and I'm not ashamed to tell anyone here that. Of course, it would have to be a VERY local and convenient (among other things).

Look at it this way. I need a haircut. I have hair that really scares stylists because of the the curls. I've had plenty of really cruddy, expensive haircuts from people who swore they were the best. In my entire life I've found two people who understand my hair and have cut it well. One is in Beverly Hills and she's amazing. She also has a 6-week wait list and charges $300 an appointment. It's a pleasure to go there, but I can't afford that. I've only seen her twice.

The other is a lady at a Fantastic Sam's who I think may actually be better. I get a deep conditioning treatment and trim from her on a regular basis and I only pay $35 for that.

Do you think that lady A is upset because I'm going to Fantastic Sam's? No, she's not. It's because she has plenty of customers willing to pay her fees because she knows how to market herself. People perceive her service as being worth that much so they pay for it.

It's not about what YOU think you're worth, it's about what others think you're worth. It's how you market yourself, how people learn of you and your reputation.

If every hair stylist in this country started demanding they earn $300 a client... and then whined about how the people at Fantastic Sams' are ruining the industry for everyone...just who would look like the fool there?

A lot of NSAs who are earning high fees are doing so through direct contracts because they're good marketers.

Reply by Derrick/MT on 10/14/08 3:04pm
Msg #267292

Upitty is such a good descriptive word

I figure my fees at $1.25 per mile with a base of $65 and it is very competitive for my market.

Reply by Jack Tri on 10/14/08 2:25pm
Msg #267281

if you look at HUD someone has 200 to 250 on it for this service that used car snake oil salesman sold you out and you work for free if you ever get paid anything if we all just not take jobs like this prices offers would rise.You are only hurting yourself in the long run..if you ever take a cheapo job like this write down the title company ph call them try to get work from them next job they may call you.and if signing co dosn't pay you call title... tell on them.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 10/14/08 3:08pm
Msg #267294

It adds up to $175

The fees you posted, ( 87.50 closing,75 to do the signing,12.50 For printing docs) add up to $175, which is still on par for signings in my area. My fees have not gone down, volume yes, but not fees. I am averaging 3/4+ loan closings a week, but my general notary work, is generating daily work. Business is still going strong in the bay area. My average fee still remains decent. I am sure you will agree, it's all about marketing and what YOU believe your services are worth.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/14/08 3:10pm
Msg #267295

Re: It adds up to $175

"The fees you posted, ( 87.50 closing,75 to do the signing,12.50 For printing docs) add up to $175, which is still on par for signings in my area"

Read it again Sheila, it's $87.50, not $175.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/14/08 3:18pm
Msg #267296

Well, it's all about Marketing at least....

What matters is if the customer is willing to pay your fee because you are worth it to THEM. Effective, well targeted marketing gets you to the customers who will see that worth.

I think a lot of NSAs here would do well to take a course or two in selling and marketing. I tell you, I thought I knew what I was doing, but I'm taking extra business courses at a community college right now and my eyes were really opened about the marketing process. That, and working for a woman who is an amazing marketer and has taught me how to think way outside the standard marketing box.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 10/14/08 4:00pm
Msg #267305

Re: 87.50 closing, OK, I get it

Even though you have 3 separate fees posted that add up to $175. You mean, these are different fees offered to you by various companies in reference to particular signings at one time or another. I like it better, and it makes more sense; added up and call it a decent signing fee! This is what we should be getting on average for e-docs.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/14/08 5:06pm
Msg #267314

Re: 87.50 closing....he means

$87.50 total for the job broken down as follows: $75.00 closing fee plus $12.50 e-doc fee = $87.50....not a decent fee in my book. MHO