Posted by davidK/CA on 10/22/08 10:38am
Msg #267927

Another esign problem

Had an esigning last night in which the dates on the RTC were dated for the previous day. There is no way to make any changes to the electronic RTC, and no way to avoid "signing" it as presented since ALL the esign documents must be signed in order to complete the program.

So how does one resolve this problem? You have to dig into the paper copies that you already printed for the borrower (just like a regular signing) and change the dates manually. Sounds like a simple solution, but if those esigned documents are so damn special why can't they be prepared correctly to begin with? The title company and/or lender knew when the signing was to take place, why didn't they fix this error in advance? I guess now title or lender will have to scan the correct paper RTC anyway and somehow delete the wrong RTC from their special vault. So much for saving time and money and adding security.

Oh, and of course they often (but not everywhere) misspelled the borrowers first name.

To top it off, these "very important and special" esign documents were displayed in very small size type on a 12" laptop screen. They were almost impossible to read. For the lower fees for esignings I'm not going to bring my 17" laptop and spend the time trying to configure my computer to the borrowers' network. I fell that you have to use the borrowers' equipment, or pay me a lot more.

What a tragic joke!

Reply by Calnotary on 10/22/08 10:43am
Msg #267928

For the right amount I could take my 17 inch laptop and my dell projector so borrowers will see it in a 100 inch screen. In your case David how are you supposed to fix the misspelling? You don't want whiteout all over your laptop right?

Reply by Yoli/CA on 10/22/08 10:49am
Msg #267929

Had a split simultaneous esigning couple of weekends ago. Met my fee and was told we'd be using borrowers' computer. However, their computer kept freezing up. So, for my part of the split, we ended up using docs (123 pages) I had previously printed for my part of the split. Then, Fedexed entire package back to Title.

So much for saving time and paper.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/22/08 11:11am
Msg #267931

Makes me glad I decided not to get involved in these. n/m

Reply by Linda Juenger on 10/22/08 11:15am
Msg #267932

Re: Makes me glad I decided not to get involved in these.

I agree Lee. They have a very long way to go before I spend any $ on equipment for this. They sound like a pita to me. I haven't been called yet to do one and my answer at this point will be no thanks.

Reply by PAW on 10/22/08 12:28pm
Msg #267935

Was the correct date specified in the esigning header information? That is, during the prologue, before actually looking and 'signing' the documents, was the correct date entered?

Technically, the dates on the RTC are somewhat meaningless when it comes to determining the rescission period. There are multiple conditions which must be met, one of which is the date which the notification is provided to the signers. So, even if the dates on the RTC were 10/20, if the signing took place on 10/21 (and that's the date entered in the prologue), then the rescission period commences on the following day (10/22) and expires on the third business day (10/25).

Reply by MW/VA on 10/22/08 12:29pm
Msg #267936

That is a major problem if the dates on the RTC were wrong. I don't know that I would have proceeded with the e-sign portion. I haven't done many, but I have heard from others that there are errors sometimes & it ends up going all paper after all.

Reply by davidK/CA on 10/22/08 1:24pm
Msg #267941

Responding to PAW, most respectfully

Paul, I agree with you that the effective RTC date is when they receive the info, that why we are allowed to actually change this one document if necessary.

However, I don't think you can change anything that you finally get with an AmTrust esign, so all I could do was resort to paper with the corrected dates. My point was that they make such a big, big deal about how esign is the wave of the future and yet something as obvious as making sure that the RTC date is the same as the date of the appointment that THEY SET gets past them completely. And of course the esigned RTC documents now have to be incorrectly dated because there is no way to fix the RTC the borrowers are presented with to "agree to".

Besides, my general feeling is that with all the trouble of secret passwords, only using Internet Explorer, being held captive by the borrowers' computer network and hardware and still printing almost all the pages anyway it just doesn't compute for me.

I think I've done my last one until the AmTrust esign program makes massive changes in procedure and ease of use.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 10/22/08 4:18pm
Msg #267959

David,

In you esigning, could you not check the dates before you went to the signing, and then find out that they were wrong, print the hard copies, change the dates as we have always done with regular paper signings and sent them with the printed docs that we notarize?

Reply by Catnip/ID on 10/22/08 1:48pm
Msg #267944

I've done one of these and for the most part, everything went smoothly. The Borrowers computer did freeze up just once, so I went to the internet properties, deleted all the browsing history and hit the refresh button. No problems after that! I also made sure I printed the RTC before going to the apointment.

Reply by ChristineHI on 10/22/08 5:24pm
Msg #267961

Funny, I have my first e signing in 30 minutes.
I processed loans for 15 years and honestly I don't understand...Why esigning? I still had to print out 70 pages of paper for them to sign because all the notarized docs still need to be on paper. They cannot fund the loan until the paper docs get there anyway so....what is the advantage of the esigning? I could understand if the whole package is done online but only about a third of it is done online. Very weird and actually more time consuming because we will have to do the hard copy docs and then get on the computer for the rest. Very strange....I am not investing in a wifi card though. I am using the borrower's wireless system to do it. Not worth the cost since I have only been asked twice for these.
Now that I am about to do one...it am just perplexed on the advantages....it is a mystery to me. =-)

Reply by davidK/CA on 10/22/08 5:55pm
Msg #267963

Frankly, the only advantage I see is that AmTrust can charge the borrower an extra $250 if they fail to esign, even if the problem that prevents the esign from being completed is not the borrowers fault.

As for the RTC, it is one of the electronic documents that the borrowers must accept. Of course in the paper copies for the borrower were six RTCs (three each) which I then corrected the dates, had the borrowers initial the changes and then sign them manually. As PAW stated above the RTC date is the actual date they were presented with the documents but I couldn't let the incorrect dates just stand as it was presented electronically.

Reply by JAM/CA on 10/23/08 12:23pm
Msg #268036

I had the exact same problem as you David and of course the esign was on a Saturday. I was told by Gemstone that if you sign a document electronically, then you can't have a duplicate authorative copy signed. It's one or the other. It seems the lenders and Title companies have not been sufficiently trained. They need to know how to make changes when necessary. We can't make the changes on the site. The esign is not for the convience of the borrower, only the lender. IMHO

Another problem. I have done esignings for different Title companies. If one Title company doesn't delete your name after a period of time, it defaults back to the last Title company you did an esign for. I had to use my personal email on the last one and create new password and security questions to get into the new docs with the new Title company. Last company still has not deleted my name.

I feel these still have a lot of kinks to work out and further training of the Title companies and Lenders. I charged a high enough fee to compensate for all the hassles.

Reply by Ralph Wedertz on 10/23/08 2:29pm
Msg #268041

Went out on two "E-Signings" with a friend from First American Title. What a nightmare - neither could be completed. And as Catnip pointed out so well, you also have to be a computer repairman and software expert to fix the borrower's crapped up computer so it will function properly, or spend a gazillion dollars on laptops, software and accessories, e-stamps, and other garbage, then drag it all into the customers home and crawl around looking for a plug behind a couch that no one has vacuumed behind for 10 years, brushing away dog hairs, mouse droppings and an ocean of dirt. What fun!

Then you are still swimming around in printed documents anyway and fuddling around with a computer and E-signature pad and stylii - it's horrendous. Sort of like when Windoze 2000 and XP came out, everyone hated them until they were fixed, about two years later. I am sure this will come of age, but for now I will let those of you brave souls bang your heads into your keyboards until all of the bugs are worked out. For me, just keep those PDF's coming - print, sign, drop, print, sign, drop.