Posted by Brason Services, Etc. on 10/29/08 2:47pm
Msg #268559

Jurat vs Acknowledgment

Promissory Note ... since we aren't supposed to determine which form a signer uses, which is best for this type of document.

Reply by davidK/CA on 10/29/08 2:52pm
Msg #268560

Which is best?

That's not a decision you should be making, so to avoid practicing law without a license, and possibly losing your commission do not answer the question. As you stated, the Notary is not to determine which form (Ack or Jurat) to use.

Reply by LisaWI on 10/29/08 2:53pm
Msg #268561

You will ask the document maker or the signer which is appropriate. If you are referring to a note in a loan package, why do you think it needs to be notarized?

Reply by Roger_OH on 10/29/08 2:54pm
Msg #268562

You can only ask the signer what form they prefer; if they don't know, refer them to the originator of the document for an answer.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/29/08 5:47pm
Msg #268574

"If you are referring to a note in a loan package, why do you think it needs to be notarized?"

I was wondering the same thing. There's a reason there isn't notarial wording on these things.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/29/08 4:24pm
Msg #268566

Best?

A notary isn't allowed to answer that question for a signer.

You can, however, explain the difference between the two and let them decide...but you can't tell them which is "best".


Per the CA Handbook:

In the certificate of acknowledgment, the notary public certifies:

• That the signer personally appeared before the notary public on the date indicated in the
county indicated.
• To the identity of the signer.
• That the signer acknowledged executing the document.


The jurat is identified by the wording “Subscribed and sworn to (or affirmed)” contained in the form. In the jurat, the notary public certifies:

• That the signer personally appeared before the notary public on the date indicated and in
the county indicated.
• To the identity of the signer.
• That the signer signed the document in the presence of the notary public.
• That the notary public administered the oath or affirmation.



The main difference between the two... and you should already know this... is that the acknowledgment can be signed outside the presence of the notary. The notary is simply certifying the identity and signature on a document. It is the most common notarial wording/act used.

The jurat, however, involves the notary witnessing the signature taking place on the document and having the person swear/affirm that the statements or content of the document are correct.

Does a promissory note need a jurat? We can't answer that. If after explaining the two, they still don't know what to do, they need to talk to either the agency or individual requesting the notarization or to an attorney. It seems like overkill...but you need to cover yourself and not give any indication you're giving legal advice.

Based on what I've experienced, though... there's a reason the acknowledgment is so common. The jurat is more specialized and is usually reserved for documents where the signer has to swear to or affirm the contents of a document (like a 'sworn statement') and not just signing a document as in an acknowledgment. That doesn't mean I know, or can even state what wording belongs on a promissory note. That's up to the document maker/receiver and what they want.


Of course, neither make a document legal or valid... it's just about the signature.

Reply by davidK/CA on 10/29/08 5:36pm
Msg #268571

The original question is an example of ANOTHER Notary Public that doesn't know the basic rules and procedures that California Law requires a California notary Public to understand and follow.

Is this likely another failure of the California notary education and testing process? I believe that's very possible. IMHO six hours of class and a thirty question multiple choice exam (you can pass with nine wrong answers!) may be really too little to produce a qualified Notary who understands through practical experience what the rules and procedures really mean.

I don't suggest anything equivalent to what most professional trades have as a licensing requirement, but surely such a legally important position of trust could benefit from increased training beyond the current requirements immediately followed by a quickie examination.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/29/08 6:21pm
Msg #268582

The exam is too easy and far too easy to pass. 70%?? Good grief. It should be 80-85%.

And I wouldn't be opposed to requiring CEU courses, either... such as for identity theft, new law updates, etc. I also would not be opposed to requiring some kind of an apprentice system, either, perhaps something similar to the state's Real Estate appraiser requirements.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/29/08 7:20pm
Msg #268597

I think you need to re-read your own question. If a document doesn't contain notary wording, you don't notarize it! Good grief!

Reply by Brason Services, Etc. on 10/30/08 3:22pm
Msg #268681

Thank you to those of you who replied with a positive tone. As a new notary, I had hoped my peers could encourage confidence as well as insight into the profession that of course is not covered in the 6 hour course we take. CEU units are an excellent idea.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/30/08 6:32pm
Msg #268697

Our state doesn't have or require a course. When I was a "newbie" I really had no clue.
I took the "certification" courses from a couple of places. As I learned, it is important to get your state's Notary Handbook and know it well. Welcome to the Notary profession.