Posted by pat/WA on 10/11/08 6:39pm
Msg #267043

Limited Power of Attorney

This is a way to by pass notaries in addition to outsourcing document preparation.

The borrowers I signed today had been asked to sign a limited power of attorney giving the signing service authority to sign their documents for them. Needless to say they refused!

Any comments??

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/11/08 6:58pm
Msg #267045

Wait a minute...

The Signing Service asked for LPOA in order to sign the borrower's loan documents for them?

Who would ever agree to that? And what kind of signing service would even dare ask that? (okay, maybe that's a dumb question). And what lender/title/escrow company even accept documents signed that way?

Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/11/08 7:23pm
Msg #267048

And if they do it

Wouldn't they need a notary for the POA?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/11/08 7:25pm
Msg #267049

That, too. Yes. LOL! n/m

Reply by pat/WA on 10/11/08 7:41pm
Msg #267053

Re: That, too. Yes. LOL!

Yes, he could have taken it to a bank or to anywhere there was a notary to notarize the LPOA. There would have been no need for a notary to witness and notarize the loan documents. This was communicated to him by telephone and also on the LPOA document. His comment was, he was told this would be faster than having a notary come to his home to notarize documents

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/11/08 8:03pm
Msg #267059

Still sounds crazy to me... Personally I would

never let anyone sign my loan papers for me, especially if I haven't seen them. I figure if I'm not competent enough to sign my own loan papers I have no business taking out a loan. I don't care about convenience. I'm certainly not going to hand over any kind of LPOA to some random signing service for me. Who knows what they're signing?


That scares me to think signing services are actually doing that. Don't they realize that taking on a POA, or even a LPOA means a fiduciary duty for which they're responsible for upholding? Scary stuff.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 10/11/08 8:19pm
Msg #267062

Re: Wait a minute...

Most packages I've seen have a Correction Agreement and/or a Compliance Affidavit, both of which are LPOAs - is it possible that these weren't explained properly?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 10/11/08 8:20pm
Msg #267063

Well, that makes sense, but my impression was that

the LPOA was for the ENTIRE package, not just for compliance issues.

Reply by LindaP/OH on 10/11/08 8:34pm
Msg #267065

In many, many closing packages I have seen a limited power of attorney that permits the lender to make minor corrections, (typos, etc.) with the bo being sent a copy of what was corrected. It is stated clearly on the form that no corrections would be made to the note and mortgage; no corrections that whould change the terms of the loan. Are you absolutely certain of the purpose of the form you saw?? If you are correct in your interpretation, I can't imagine anyone in their right mind signing it!!!

Reply by Jack Tri on 10/11/08 9:03pm
Msg #267069

The Loan company would have to ok this to.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/11/08 9:16pm
Msg #267071

Sounds to me like there was a slight

breakdown in communication...I'd bet it was your standard LPOA for typo's only.....Lender approval is required if a loan package is to be signed by POA...

Not to mention I agree with others that I'd never give anyone (other than my husband) authority to sign loan docs on my behalf...isn't that how a lot of this mortgage fraud came about??

Reply by Joan_OH on 10/11/08 9:34pm
Msg #267073

This sounds like one of those closings....

that LSI was pushing last year. If I remember, they were Wachovia packages and/or maybe US Bank Packages.. Buyer signs a LPOA and the closing is done over the phone while both parties are on the computer and the borrower gives title permission to sign on their behalf.

These were going around a lot last year, but haven't heard much about them since Amtrust started with their Esignings.

Joan-OH

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/11/08 9:51pm
Msg #267074

So maybe they just forgot to remove that form from

the package? I could agree with that but I cheated - Pat posted elsewhere it was Countrywide...<G>

Reply by Joan_OH on 10/11/08 10:24pm
Msg #267076

Re: So maybe they just forgot to remove that form from

When LSI was hot and heavy to do these last year, I would get a few from people who refused, did not have computer access, or were not savvy enough to handle a computer closing. The LPOA was still in with the junk docs even though it turned into a paper closing. This LPOA allowed a representative from title sign the loan documents on buyers behalf. Personally, I would never sign a LPOA for a title company. I might consider for a lender if they required it - they are the ones who decide whether to loan me the money or not. However, the title company doesn't need one - a correction/e&o agreement should be sufficiant.

Joan-OH

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/11/08 11:39pm
Msg #267081

I forgot who it was...

I remember tons of discussion about this back then. It seemed like some companies were trying to make this the trend of the future. As I recall, borrowers could just go to the local UPS store, Kinkos or wherever to get one document notarized, then the rest would be done, as Joan said, with a title co rep via the equivalent of a webinar. The borrowers log on from their home, view the documents online and someone else signs them on their behalf. No need for a signing agent or remote closer.

Personally, I would never agree to that, either. I've also done at least one signing with borrowers who refused to go that route.

Reply by PAW on 10/12/08 7:11am
Msg #267085

Re: So maybe they just forgot to remove that form from

Technically, the lender could not be the AIF due to conflict of interest issues. Given that, who else? Title companies, settlement companies, escrow companies, etc., are the ones who typically perform the closing, thus they are the ones designated as the AIF.

Personally, I would never allow it either. If there was some underlying reason that I could not attend the closing, I would have my attorney, or someone close to *me* that understands my reasons and principles. I would never leave these decisions to anyone involved in the process to make those decisions for me.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/12/08 7:38am
Msg #267089

These are the types of posts that drive me absolutely crazy. Perhaps I need to get a life. Pat says 'signing service'. I have no idea how people can do this job and not know who the players are nor their positions. Joan is the only one who has this right. No 'signing service' is involved (and no, the borrowers didn't telll her 'signing service' because they have never heard that term and have no idea what it is - only 'we' know what a signing service is), it's the vendor management companies and yes, LSI was/is the leader in this. It is for the entire loan package. Prior to the closing, they receive a VERY voluminous POA document. They take it to a local notary and then they return it to the vendor management company. At the appointed closing time, borrowers sit at their computer screen and a vm rep sits at their screen. They go over the docs via the telephone. The borrowers verbally give permission for the aif to sign on their behalf. They work through the package until it's finished. It's actually quite a 'dangerous' instrument in that it even affords the power to sell the real estate. We all see sloppy work in our loan packages .... I surely, like Paul, would trust no one I didn't know with a POA over my real estate - not that I would want to believe for one minute anyone at a vendor management company would intentionally do something illegal but sloppy/incomplete work is everywhere. And then there is that one web site that details the crooks and their schemes in this business so again, personal opinion, anyone is crazy who signs one of these if they truly read it. I guarantee if they took it to a local attorney for an opinion, that document would never be signed or if it was to be signed, there would be so many line changes it would be unreadable.

Reply by LindaP/OH on 10/12/08 8:13am
Msg #267093

I respectfully disagree with Sue. I cannot imagine a lender who wanted to close the type of transaction she described not fully discussing the procedure and getting approval from the bo BEFORE the arrival of the SA. If this was a VOLUMINOUS document, wouldn't the original poster have mentioned that so that we could get a clear picture of what was happening?? If you look at the original post, it sounds like a single document, not a book. Also, do you honestly think a lender a lender would put an enormously important document in the hands of a SA without at least SOME discussion of what was happening?? Given some of the posts we have seen on this forum, they would have to be incredibly ignorant!!! I still think she saw the typical form we see .

Reply by LindaP/OH on 10/12/08 8:52am
Msg #267095

OOPS!!!

OOPS!!! Sorry!!!! Didn't read enough posts!! Please disregard previous post-I'll keep my big mouth shut now!!!

Reply by jojo_MN on 10/12/08 8:57am
Msg #267096

Can you "copy and paste" original without borrowers info so

we can see exactly what you are reading?