Posted by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/24/08 10:00pm
Msg #268152

Mega packets of docs

I've had closings lately of 180-210 pages. When I have gotten them, I've called the scheduler and explained to them that my quoted fee for a signing is for a packet of a maximum of 120 pages, and told them I charge additional for packets of that size. To date, I have not had anyone refuse to supplement the fee.

How do other NSAs handle the Godzilla-size doc packets? Do you tell the scheduler up front the fee is for a reasonably sized packet, call back to renegotiate when the monster shows up in your email, or just write it off and figure some packets come in smaller and it all balances out?

I'm not really satisfied with renegotiating a fee in the fashion I have been doing; sometimes, for example, the assignment may be several days old, and I get the document package only 2-3 hours before closing. Renegotiating at that stage strikes me as a bit uncricket, if I can coin a word.

On the other hand, my experience with the Godzilla packets is that the size is always inflated by numerous duplications: The same form, just in a different format. One tonight had four different versions of the Notice of Penalties for Fraud.

On the third hand, or whatever other appendage is left, the scheduler is not going to know the size of the packet, and on the couple of occasions I've attempted to make the size of the fee contingent on the size of the packet, I met a lot of resistance.

Anybody got a better approach?

Reply by Michelle/AL on 10/24/08 10:12pm
Msg #268154

Hugh, since the prime lending fiasco came to a head most of my loan packets have been < 100 pages in length. It could be coincidental, I'm not sure. If that were to happen to me I would use your approach.

I have been thinking about coming up with a template email response to confirmations I receive. It would state that I accept the fee quoted based on: 1) no faxbacks, no godzilla packages, etc., etc. It's just hard for me to remember all this when I'm on the phone with the scheduler - especially if I'm not in my home office at the time.

Reply by goodgirl on 10/24/08 10:53pm
Msg #268163

"Godzilla package." I like that...

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/24/08 11:02pm
Msg #268166

Haven't found a better way than you've already said, Hugh. I've thought about the 'e-mail template' thing, but, fact is that they usually really DON'T know how big the pkg. is. Also, I ate a few before I decided, as Hugh put it--but sorta sideways--that it was no longer going to be MY cricket that got squashed. There's just so much I can 'eat' before I starve to death! So far, they've been pretty understanding of these godzilla packages.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 10/25/08 7:04am
Msg #268178

I do the same thing Hugh, I've never had anyone give me a hard time uping my fee for the large package.

Reply by Prosperity on 10/25/08 7:07am
Msg #268180

Hummmm. Good Idea. I was contacted yesterday & was told that the lender requires copies of docs for "each" borrower. I asked how big the package was & was told that it could be as many as 200 pages. I opted out. It didn't sound like it was a whole lot of bargaining room, but maybe I'll try it next time.

Reply by PAW on 10/25/08 7:09am
Msg #268181

I do provide a fee based on a doc package of less than (or equal to) 100 pages. I also send a confirmation email reply that states my billing practice of increasing the fee $5.00 per 25 pages (or part thereof) for larger packages. (So a package of 180 pages would incur a $20.00 increase in the print fee. A 210 page package would incur a $25.00 increase.) Likewise, I do decrease my printing fee for smaller packages (less than 50 pages).

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/25/08 7:32am
Msg #268183

PAW? Re: Mega packets of docs

My print fee figures exactly, PAW. The question is: Do they pay it because you 'said so' or do you have to call/e-mail/negotiate to get a 'new, improved CO' out of them? Or a reply e-mail, at least, 'accepting' your terms? In many cases, I have found this 'e-mail print terms' situation to be as enjoyable as a root canal. Easier for me to call. But I'd really rather handle it by 'e-mail template'. How do you do that effectively?

Reply by PAW on 10/25/08 9:03am
Msg #268189

Re: PAW? Re: Mega packets of docs

My reply email covers all my payment policies, not just the increased print fee. There is also a statement that says if this is not acceptable to call or reply to the email. I usually do follow up the email with a call once I receive documents and know how many pages are involved, and if the file is a "slow printing" file, such as scanned image PDF. I've had a couple of title companies and few signing services not agree with MY policy and we mutually agree to have someone else do the signing. Most of the time, it's not an issue.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/25/08 5:23pm
Msg #268220

More pages, more time involved

Certainly when the package is well above a normal package, I have no quams about asking for more because the more pages the longer the closing. A 45 minute closing becomes 1 hour and 15 minutes or longer. I have found that by stating the fact that I did take the closing at $xxx, and will stand by my fee, but that in all fairness, the package commands a higher fee of at least $25 to cover paper and time. The scheduler usually readily agrees with the increase. I think it's all in how you approach the individual for the increase.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/26/08 1:36am
Msg #268248

The FLAW in PAW (or, more accurately, his approach)

***(So a package of 180 pages would incur a $20.00 increase in the print fee. A 210 page package would incur a $25.00 increase.)***

Paul, the problem with that is that you have addressed only printing costs. If my normal packet is 120 pages, a 180-page packet represents an increase of 50 percent in the volume of documents I must print, present to the borrower, get signed, notarize, record and recheck. A nominal increase in the print fee just doesn't cover that.

Admittedly, I have not sought to recover the full amount of what I deem the additional cost of a 180-page packet vis a vis a 120-page packet. I'd sure like to find a reliable and effective way to do so.

Reply by PAW on 10/26/08 7:12am
Msg #268254

Re: The FLAW in PAW (or, more accurately, his approach)

>>> Paul, the problem with that is that you have addressed only printing costs. If my normal packet is 120 pages, a 180-page packet represents an increase of 50 percent in the volume of documents I must print, present to the borrower, get signed, notarize, record and recheck. A nominal increase in the print fee just doesn't cover that. <<<

True, I only addressed the printing costs. However, I disagree that a 50% increase in the number of pages in a doc package translates into a 50% increase in table time. Granted, there may be some additional time, just because of the volume, but the increase in pages is often caused by printing duplicate items, such as W-9 (one for each signer, 4 pages each), multiple copies of documents that can be signed en masse, closing instructions, etc.

I do charge more for a reverse mortgage (both printing and time) as well as FHA/VA packages because they do take more time as well as bigger volume. I submit that the extra time spent at the table for a 180 page package is very small compared to a 120 page package. Of course, every package is different, but it all comes out in the wash when setting fees appropriately.

Reply by EastTxNotary on 10/25/08 6:04pm
Msg #268223

Perhaps the way to approach this issue is to quote your highest fee from the "get go" and allow for discounts on smaller packages?