Posted by howard53 on 10/15/08 9:42am
Msg #267360
Price war
Hello to eveyone
I read different post daily when time allows, about how much to charge and what not to charge. I also sit here and read post about those of you that do not take less than $ 100 or $ 125. I even read a post where some one said that they only had 2 closings this month and turn down so many as we here call low ball fees. But those that has only made $ 200 to $ 250 in a months time you are not the head of a house whole. Those of us that are heads of home and responsible for paying bills have to take what we can get. Now also everyone can't go out and find a great jobs, as some of your wives or husbands have. But I must say if you push us out of business then there is more work for you and you can force to TC, SS and Escrow offices to take you fee.
None of the company's that we all do business with give a flying flip about us or if we feed our families. But we do and we do it to the best of our abilities.
Now when you come back with your statement, remember this, no my sentence structure might not be correct and my spelling might not be correct and yes i feed my family.So nothing you say will stop that .
But have fun
| Reply by MW/VA on 10/15/08 9:59am
Msg #267365
If you read the posts under "$87.50 closing" below, you will see that there are those who agree with you. When it comes down to it we all do what we need to do. It's just that accepting "lowball" offers lowers the standard for all of us. If the closing costs for the borrowers were being lowered substantially, that would be another matter--they're not
& we deserve to be paid a decent fee that doesn't undermine the importance of what we do.
| Reply by Les_CO on 10/15/08 10:02am
Msg #267366
Please understand that by taking “low-ball fees” from unscrupulous or even many times a “no-fee” from deadbeat companies you hurt yourself, as well as ALL others in this business…including those Signing Services and Title Companies that try and pay their ‘good’ NSA’s a decent fee. No, you don’t have to be a Rocket Scientist, or have a Degree, or even be good at English composition, or spelling to be in this business. You are “self-employed” and can charge what you want (within your State laws). However, that said to be a “good” NSA, and STAY in this business you MUST be very knowledgeable about many things, AND SMART! And my guess is, judging by your post, you won’t be with us very long.
| Reply by sn/oh on 10/15/08 6:27pm
Msg #267425
I am worth every bit of what I ask for. There are many times when I've saved the title co. money because I caught errors on their part. I have also saved them the "deal" because I have been the face and the voice to the customers that listened, and soothed ruffled feathers. One customer, out of spite, was going to cancel the whole deal. All he wanted was someone to hear him out. I heard him out, we signed the deal, deal went through and I was paid. Many times the SS or TC do not realize what it means to have a professional meeting their clients. I love what I do and it is reflected in my work. So Yep, I am worth my asking price. Many of us are!
| Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/15/08 7:44pm
Msg #267431
Well said Sharon. n/m
| Reply by PAW on 10/15/08 10:11am
Msg #267367
Is it profitable?
Taking low fees may not be making you any money to buy food for the table. If the cost of doing business (counting for ALL costs, not just gas, toner and paper), is more than the $50 signing you just accepted, then you aren't providing for your family at all. And, you may actually be taking away from them since you still have to cover your costs. Remember, your creditors won't sit idly by and wait for you to come up with a payment. And the local grocery store probably won't offer a deferred payment plan for a bottle of milk either.
| Reply by Steven Pearce on 10/15/08 11:19am
Msg #267371
I can respect your position...
I can respect your position.
Here's mine;
Case of paper $50
Laser printer $400
Toner $60
Daycare $32 per run (due to last minute calls)
Tank of gas $60
Recent vehicle repairs due to ethanol $1300
Training, license and background check fees $300+
Let's not forget that the money itself isn't free as we also have taxes to pay.
I understand what you mean about not having money to put food on the table, but you can lose money by taking low paying assignments. This should not be your only revenue stream if you are not making it. Use part time work or other internet based businesses to supplement your income.
By accepting the low fees you perpetuate the idea that we are 'cheap'. Start looking at the HUD at Notary Fees and see what the SS is getting paid. I've seen them range from $125 to $450. The agencies that take low fees will end up collapsing as they find it harder to get people who work for break-even. They will have to adjust or go out of business, but looking at the HUD will show so many outrageous charges for minutiae such as 'photocopy fees' and the like, that it is insulting that the title companies want to make more money by reducing fees for what we do. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but don't the closings pretty much hinge on OUR services as well? ...photocopy fees! If they want to be noble and save the borrower some money, then they should rewrite some of those HUDs and settlement statements.
| Reply by Becca_FL on 10/15/08 11:26am
Msg #267372
Re: Price war - Howard
I am a sole provider and head of my household and I can NOT afford to take low ball offers. Think about it, it's like paying someone to secure a job if you are not making enough to cover your expenses. I just accepted a closing from a TC that I have worked with for 4+ years and guess what...They used to pay me $175 and now will only pay $135. I DO accept reduced fees now, but not to the point that it costs me to do business. Sure, my volume is down, but my package average remains the same as it has for the past 3 years.
There are plenty of ways you can diversify your business and start bringing in money from jobs other than loan signings. Do some research, market your notary services to the general public, look into field inspections, merchandising, contract positions and other opportunities. I've even started bartering my services for other services I need, but don't have the extra cash for.
Start thinking outside the box and quit saying you are forced to take ridiculous fees because you are not. You're just being lazy, IMHO.
| Reply by nolanotary on 10/15/08 12:09pm
Msg #267377
Re: Key word = Profit
Basic formula for Profit (or Loss) = Income (your Fees) - Expenses (Incl. Job specific & Overhead).
Most posts in this forum focus on the Income side (FEES) and they scrutinize anyone who accepts "low ball" fees. I have yet to read a black & white definition of what is considered a "low ball" fee...probably because that amount is subjective and dependent upon who is evaluating the amount offered & accepted. Also, keep in mind that there will never be a day in which all SS/TC's will all pay the same fee's, eliminating the competition among themselves. There will always be some that pay higher fees than others, so demanding high fees from all of them is unrealistic.
IMO, everyone in this business needs to evaluate their own business according to the basic profit formula...it's not a one size fits all approach. The real key to success here is the Expense side of the equation. Face it...This business is price sensitive...lowest price generally gets the business, so focus on reducing your expenses to a point where it might be possible to accept a lower fee and still be profitable. If your overhead is so high that you cannot compete, and accept comparable fees with others in your area, then your business will suffer. Maybe it's time to consider another occupation.
I want to be as busy as possible, but do not want to work for free; therefore, I strive to keep my expenses down, my prices reasonable (and competitive), and deliver a reputable service. So far it's been working...Unfortunately, I don't have a gold mine, but my family eats and my bills are paid.
"One man's trash is another man's treasure"
| Reply by LKT/CA on 10/15/08 9:27pm
Msg #267440
Re: Key word = Profit
<<<Most posts in this forum focus on the Income side (FEES) and they scrutinize anyone who accepts "low ball" fees. I have yet to read a black & white definition of what is considered a "low ball" fee...probably because that amount is subjective and dependent upon who is evaluating the amount offered & accepted.>>>
Take a look at message 183435, add $37.50 to the $50 and you still get a wage of less than ten bucks an hour. That was just a general guide but I think you get the picture.
| Reply by Notary01 on 10/15/08 1:16pm
Msg #267382
just signed in to see who the restless natives are eating today and I guess it is you Howard53.
Best of luck to you
| Reply by howard53 on 10/15/08 1:18pm
Msg #267383
Some of you are mixing my post and other post together, never said anything about putting food on my table or anything as such.
What I'm saying is that trying to tell us that we not making money and should leave the business is alway in your favor.NO one to compete with you. I myself don't depend on just Loan Closing. if you check my website you would see I'm a Process server,I do Field Inspection, and basic Notary Business. I do make a good living at what I do,IMHO $ 87.50 is a fair price in the city limits. If you can get more by all mean do so.
| Reply by dickb/wi on 10/15/08 2:12pm
Msg #267392
do you have a business plan?....do you know what.....
your expenses are?....do you have any idea what is happening?....i doubt it...jmho
| Reply by howard53 on 10/15/08 4:04pm
Msg #267403
Re: do you have a business plan?....do you know what.....
Your doubts are wrong been self employed for over 20 years. and I still don't believe in harping at people so you can get ahead.
Thats why I love been a Process server. they arent as cut throat as the people here, and they work together and send business each other way.
Have a great day
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/17/08 3:50am
Msg #267560
Re: do you have a business plan?....do you know what.....
I guess process servers in your neck of the woods don't have the equivalent of various companies who have decided they can make more $$ by training process servers and flooding the market, then publishing recommended "minimum" fees. Or maybe the cost of living in your area is less than some others...
| Reply by PAW on 10/15/08 7:36pm
Msg #267430
>>> Some of you are mixing my post and other post together, never said anything about putting food on my table or anything as such. <<<
Oh but you did. You said, "None of the company's that we all do business with give a flying flip about us or if we feed our families. But we do and we do it to the best of our abilities."
And also said, "Those of us that are heads of home and responsible for paying bills have to take what we can get."
So, the impression you left, at least to me, was that you are the breadwinner of the family, and you need to put food on the table, as well as paying the bills. What we are saying, is accepting lowball fees often is not profitable and actually may be costing you (collective 'you') money which takes away from providing food and paying bills since the assignments are liabilities.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/15/08 8:00pm
Msg #267433
And at the end a quick statement
"and yes i feed my family"
so yes, I got the same impression too..you're putting food on the table.
| Reply by SueW/Tn on 10/15/08 8:03pm
Msg #267435
I have the answer for you Howard
There are several very experienced SA's that post on the political forum that have are in complete agreement with "wealth redistribution". May I suggest you pop over there and see who they are and them contact them through PM, I'm positive they'll turn over their client list and any other information they've got to help anyone to become more successful.
| Reply by jba/fl on 10/16/08 11:29am
Msg #267469
ooo, ooo, ooo - love your answer SueW! n/m
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