Posted by CaliNotary on 10/28/08 11:08pm
Msg #268510

Tonight I put my money where my mouth is

Got a call from a new to me signing service for an edoc closing about 5 miles from me, which means I only charged my base fee.

Got the docs (late, of course), open the pdf, 199 pages. Plus another 3 page HUD. This would be the point where a lot of people would jump on the phone and start asking for more money, but I've said in the past that I don't agree with doing that, and I didn't. I just figured this would be a signing that fell on the longer end of the spectrum.

Get to the signing and find out the borrower is a 72 year old woman. She tells me the property is not in a trust, but split between TWO trusts. Which means, on the bulk of the lender documents, she has to sign twice as a trustee, and a third time as an individual.

Start going through the package and discover there's a long report on hazardous materials, about 25 pages, doesn't need signing. An extra long preliminary title report, about 40 pages, doesn't need signing. A 23 page deed of trust, no initials, just one signature page. About 8 blank acknowledgments with correct California language. So all of that accounts for about half of the entire 203 page package and exactly one of those pages required the borrower's signature.

I checked the time when I got back in the car. I was in her house for 56 minutes. My fees are based on allowing 1 hour for the signing plus travel time.

And that is why I don't charge extra on those rare occasions that I receive a ridiculously large loan package.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/28/08 11:32pm
Msg #268513

OK, you're walking the walk, but I think you got lucky. n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/28/08 11:52pm
Msg #268519

It wasn't luck

Unless I've gotten lucky every single time I've gotten a monster package like that. It never adds any particularly notable difference to the signing time, the additional paper cost is negligible, I've never had a single one that left me feeling like I screwed myself by not charging enough.

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/29/08 12:21am
Msg #268522

I agree with you

Or wait, am I agreeing with myself? Are you still my secret alter ego or did we get that cleared up? Anyway, I don't renegotiate my fee if the package is thicker than I thought it would be. My fee is my fee. Sometimes it's smaller than usual, sometimes it's larger than usual. That's just how it goes. I think it's unprofessional to call back and ask for more bucks if the package isn't to my liking. I want to make it as easy as possible for companies to deal with me.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/29/08 8:04am
Msg #268529

I concur. Some go very fast , some take a little longer.

If you have the proper hardware, the incremental cost of an extra
50 page package is a couple of bucks and a few extra minutes to print
and at the signing.
I would rather be on the first call list , than the PITA list, and only
get called in an emergency.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/29/08 3:42pm
Msg #268564

Re: I concur. Some go very fast , some take a little longer.

The typical Texas signing involves 120+ pages of documents, and takes an hour to complete. When you add 60 pages to that, the signing then becomes an hour and a half signing, with the additional possiblity of a revisit for missing a signature in that additional 60 pages. The additional printing cost is actually the smallest part of the equation.

A further consideration is that with the Godzilla packets, the document preparers tend to run in unnecessary extra copies of documents. I have had packets where there is more than one document that can be found in as many as four formats: All the same content, just different formats. If it is the same price for every size document package, there is no incentive to reduce that surplusage. The notary's time is regarded as infinitely expandable and thus infinitely expendable by the lender/TC.

I do reduce fees for smaller packages, and I do charge additionally for Godzilla packets, just as I charge additionally for faxbacks. It's a service business; the more service you use, the more you pay. Works for me, and seems to work for millions of other businesses around the world.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/29/08 5:54pm
Msg #268576

Re: I concur. Some go very fast , some take a little longer.

"The typical Texas signing involves 120+ pages of documents, and takes an hour to complete. When you add 60 pages to that, the signing then becomes an hour and a half signing"

Maybe for you it does, but for me it sure wouldn't.


"It's a service business; the more service you use, the more you pay. Works for me, and seems to work for millions of other businesses around the world."

Not every service business has a billable hour mentality. In this industry a flat fee mentality is much more effective. And much more lucrative, as I have WAY more unusually quick and easy signings than I do unusually large and long signings.

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/29/08 9:11pm
Msg #268615

Re: I concur. Some go very fast , some take a little longer.

Schedulers don't care about the millions of other businesses around the world. They care about simple, no fuss assignments.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/29/08 9:27pm
Msg #268617

Re: I concur. Some go very fast , some take a little longer.

And schedulers don't want to be on the phone with one person very long, they have 20 more to schedule and don't have the time always...jmo

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/29/08 9:54pm
Msg #268623

Re: I concur. Some go very fast , some take a little longer.

***Schedulers don't care about the millions of other businesses around the world. They care about simple, no fuss assignments.***

There are many things schedulers don't care about. My business is not necessarily one of them. That's my job. And I do my job best when I see that I get paid appropriately for what I do.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/29/08 11:20pm
Msg #268626

Hugh has an excellent argument here.

"If it is the same price for every size document package, there is no incentive to reduce that surplusage. The notary's time is regarded as infinitely expandable and thus infinitely expendable by the lender/TC."

It would seem that they are the only ones allowed to be sloppy. If they have to pay for the duplicates that we see all too frequently, they would be motivated to clean up their act. This is not a bad thing for anyone involved.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/30/08 8:48am
Msg #268637

Re: I concur. Some go very fast , some take a little longer.

... there is no incentive to reduce that surplusage. The notary's time is regarded as infinitely expandable and thus infinitely expendable by the lender/TC....

Do you really think that the legal and compliance departments of Chase, Countrywide, Citi, GMAC, etc., even think for one milisecond about the notary's time? We are NO WHERE in the equation when it comes to doc prep. Not only is our time expendable, we are completely expendable - no one at the top of the ladder EVER considers us when decisions are being made.

A 'normal' sized package for me is 150+ pages.

Everyone is different in the way they must price themselves to be profitable. There are many factors that go into each separate equation. I am one of those that all inclusive works for me.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/30/08 9:40am
Msg #268641

The reason for multiple dox that serve the same function.

"I have had packets where there is more than one document that can be found in as many as four formats: All the same content, just different formats"

Lenders have committees that make up the "standard " package.
They meet in various locations and are not aware of each other's existence.
Charman says " we need a doc" to say bwr lives @ PIQ , one that says that
they will sign additional dox if necessary and another that says,"I am who I
say I am".
Each committee steals a form from some other lender that performs this task.
When it gets to fianal review committee, they dicide to use them all, "just in case"
Serously, I have found that the higher the interest rate and loan fees, the more dox
are in the pkg. I guess that the theory is, " The more stuff they sign, the better
the chance that they will repay the loan."
Also, broker initiated loans, are far more doc intensive, with broker and disclosue dox.
On the plus side, there are not too many loans going through now
that are other than "prime" This has reduced the number of Godzilla pks significantly.