Posted by Anna Di Vietri on 10/5/08 4:43pm
Msg #266421

need assistance

Sometimes the wording on docs confuse me. for example

When a doc has ie: signature affidavit
________________
Borrower Joe Smith

Subscribed and sworn to (or affirmed) before me on this _________ day of ________, 2008, by _________???????____________, proved to me the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person (s) who appeared before me.


_________________
Notary signature


######the by part, is this my name or the borrower. Now I've done it both ways and no one has ever gotten back to me that's it incorrect, so I'm always unsure as to how to proceed.

When I see BY:

Warmest regards,
Anna

Reply by ME/NJ on 10/5/08 4:51pm
Msg #266422

Find a new job.. n/m

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 10/6/08 11:33am
Msg #266494

Re: Find a new job..

I guess 'common sense' isn't so common.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/5/08 4:52pm
Msg #266423

On the Jurat, the document signer's name goes after the "by". If you put your name there, you would be proving to yourself on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person who appeared before me (which is you, the Notary).

Read the sentence with your name after the "by". Does it really make sense to put your name there, or Joe Smith's? If you put your name there, you'd be notarizing your own signature - which is a no-no.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/5/08 4:56pm
Msg #266424

This is Basic Notary 101 stuff....

and IMHO this is frightening..."Now I've done it both ways and no one has ever gotten back to me that's it incorrect," You should read your handbook again...and again...and again...

Reply by Patricia Manatt on 10/5/08 5:21pm
Msg #266428

Re: This is Basic Notary 101 stuff....

and i'll bet this person is doing signings for next to nothing. what an embarrassment!

Reply by Alice/MD on 10/5/08 5:12pm
Msg #266426

I worry about my competition in this business and the industry as a hold.

Reply by Anna Di Vietri on 10/5/08 6:34pm
Msg #266430

apologies for my ignorance..sorry i asked! n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 10/5/08 7:23pm
Msg #266433

Re: apologies for my ignorance..sorry i asked!

Some say there are no stupid questions--only stupid answers. Your question may show a basic lack of knowledge, but there isn't necessarily instructions on how to complete an ack or jurat. You might want to consider taking some additional training. If the wording says
"before me .........", your name goes there; "by ........" is the signers name. That may be obvious to some, but I've heard it put this way: "To assume--make an a-- out of you and an a-- out of me".

Reply by Linda Juenger on 10/5/08 7:59pm
Msg #266436

Re: apologies for my ignorance..sorry i asked!

"but there isn't necessarily instructions on how to complete an ack or jurat."

I dont' know about NY, but in the IL handbook, it clearly shows and states how to fill out both an ack and jurat. I would imagine that every state has some kind of information on how to do this. Isn't this the "guts" of our business, ack & jurats? This is basic 101 notary knowledge.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/5/08 9:01pm
Msg #266442

Re: apologies for my ignorance..sorry i asked!

"Isn't this the "guts" of our business, ack & jurats? This is basic 101 notary knowledge. "

It absolutely is. For anybody to defend a notary who can't do something that basic is ludicrous. There are indeed stupid questions, and this would be one, if you're already a commissioned notary. Absolutely no excuse for it.

Reply by desktopfull on 10/5/08 9:15pm
Msg #266447

Why would anyone be offering a service that they

obviously don't know how to perform properly? The only ones that have assumed anything are the ones that hired this notary thinking that she knew how to do her job. Why didn't she ask those that hired her how to fill out their acknowledgement properly since she didn't understand the wording. Yes, there are at times we get tricky worded forms and in those instances I use the general forms for my state and attach to the document. This notary is evidently clueless and should not be acting as a notary public and is doing everyone that hires her and injustice. Especially since she has admitted to filling out the notarizations incorrectly several times. If she can't take the honest responses to her irresponsibility, she shouldn't have posted. The other responses weren't rude.

Reply by Regina brown on 10/5/08 7:40pm
Msg #266435

Re: apologies for my ignorance..sorry i asked!

Why are you all being so nasty?!?!?!? It's a fellow notary asking a question!!!!!! Aren't we all supposed to be in this together?????

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 10/5/08 8:26pm
Msg #266439

Re: apologies for my ignorance..sorry i asked!

Regina, Yes we are all in this together. I have to say some people will not play nice..If a question bothers you, why not just leave it alone! There really is no need to treat each other this way!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/5/08 9:12pm
Msg #266445

Claudine???

" NNA 2008 Notary of the Year Special Honoree award! Notary for 6 years and a Notary Signing Agent for 5 years"

So why didn't you answer her question? Perhaps you should contact her and help refresh her on the basics...

Reply by Janet Lopez on 10/5/08 8:39pm
Msg #266441

It's the borrower's name there.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/5/08 9:10pm
Msg #266444

It wasn't so much the basic nature of the question

yes she should have known BUT yes, wording sometimes confuses...HOWEVER, this is the part that bothered me most..

"Now I've done it both ways and no one has ever gotten back to me that's it incorrect, so I'm always unsure as to how to proceed."

Obviously she's been notarizing and has notarized incorrectly - now I don't care how patient most of you are with some questions - that's just totally unacceptable in my book - this person needs to re-train and re-read her handbook and notary laws before she sets her seal anywhere....I don't see how anyone can condone this ... MHO

Reply by desktopfull on 10/5/08 9:17pm
Msg #266449

I agree. n/m

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/5/08 9:21pm
Msg #266451

I love that she's sorry she asked

Apparently getting the right information is less important to her than getting her wittle feewings hurt.

Reply by Regina brown on 10/5/08 9:27pm
Msg #266453

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

I am absolutely ashamed at some of the responses. I thought this forum was to help anyone that asked a legitimate question. And she was asking to get the RIGHT information and was attacked, therefore, yeah, her wittle feewings were hurt and rightfully so. No one claims to know everything and if we can SHARE information to help anybody else, what's the harm and/or the cost??? Last time I checked....being nice was free.

Reply by desktopfull on 10/5/08 9:35pm
Msg #266454

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

You should be more ashamed that someone this innept is pretending to be a Notary Public. She evidently never even bothered to do any reading or studying of how to perform her duties as a notary and had the audacity to charge someone for her incompetance. If she wasn't aware she should have contacted the people that hired her for clarification. Why ask after you've returned that docs containing the errors, and apparently several times?

Reply by Regina brown on 10/5/08 9:39pm
Msg #266455

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

Like I said....nobody can claim to be an expert on everything. During these troubled times and those of us that know more can afford to be nice.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/5/08 9:44pm
Msg #266458

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

"During these troubled times and those of us that know more can afford to be nice. "

What on earth does being completely incompetent at your job have to do with "these troubled times"? If anything, "these troubled times" make it even more imperative that a notary knows what they're doing, lest they screw up a loan on a house that's facing foreclosure.

I'll bet you wring your hands and say "think of the children!" a lot too.

Reply by Regina brown on 10/5/08 9:51pm
Msg #266460

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

"I'll bet you wring your hands and say "think of the children!" a lot too".

I do!!!

Reply by desktopfull on 10/5/08 9:57pm
Msg #266461

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

....nobody can claim to be an expert on everything.

Your correct, but a Notary is expected to know how to fill out a simple acknowledgement correctly, after all, that is what is required of us when we get out seal. The form this woman was referring to is standard and she's claiming ignorance in completing the form. She needs to return her seal to the State and resign her commission or get some training. The last thing she should be doing at this point is notarizing any documents. What if she improperly notarizes healthcare directives, a living will, or a Power of Attorney and those documents get set aside by a court or her errors? I guess being nice and not telling her she has no business messing up others lives that assume she is supposed to know what she is doing because she is selling her services is more important.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/6/08 1:02am
Msg #266474

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

Good points. Here's how I see it -- and I'll try to be "nice". When we take on the responsibility of becoming a notary public, we also take on the responsibility of learning our state notary law and how to properly execute an acknowledgement and a jurat -- along with whatever other duties our state requires. If we asked for a show of hands, I'd bet (or fervently hope....) that the vast majority of us also took the responsibility to somehow find training, even if it wasn't required by state law, before we started notarizing.

To the original poster, I'm glad you asked the question. Now you've learned a very important part of being a notary public. I also hope that you've learned that there is perhaps more to know that is critical to doing the job right, so as many others have suggested, please get some training and study, study, study, until you have mastered the basics. Then, and only then, should you undertake the responsibility of notarizing someone else's critical documents. As desktopfull mentioned, there are potentially very serious consequences for someone depending on a document that has been notarized incorrectly.

I think what has everyone's dander up is not that these questions were asked, but that they were asked after the fact. Mastering the very basics of the office of Notary Public is an essential PREREQUISITE to putting up a shingle or presenting oneself as a notary. There is abundant training available. If any of you feel you are still unsure about how to conduct a notarization, please, please, please take the initiative and get more training. NR offers very good classes here. This is not a business where on the job training is acceptable.

I might add, that this message board is also not a site for basic training. It's supposed to be for "professional" notaries, which assumes one already knows the basics before posting here. (BTW, READING here can be a very good way to learn a lot of things. But do your own homework, please. We have already done ours - and didn't expect someone else to dish it up for free.)

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/5/08 9:41pm
Msg #266456

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

"No one claims to know everything"

There's a big difference between expecting somebody to know everything and expecting somebody to know how to perform THE most basic function of their job. Shame on you for enabling such incompetence.

"Last time I checked....being nice was free."

So is being a jerk. You know what else is nice and free? Not trying to dictate that others conform to your personal standards of behavior.

Reply by Regina brown on 10/5/08 9:46pm
Msg #266459

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

Know what else is free? Being nasty and unhappy.

I'm not trying to dictate to others, I'm just asking why be mean? But I'm going to take the high road and chalk your attitude up to having a bad day. Enjoy your evening.

Reply by desktopfull on 10/5/08 10:03pm
Msg #266463

Re: I love that she's sorry she asked

Why is it considered mean to tell the truth?

Reply by JamesLee/VA on 10/5/08 10:43pm
Msg #266466

I FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT!!!

All you miserable notaries (and you know who you are) must be from Vogsphere. I was watching a movie with a race called the Vogons. They remind me of all you negative signing agents that rarely offer any constructive advice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogon

Reply by desktopfull on 10/6/08 6:19am
Msg #266475

Re: I FINALLY FIGURED IT OUT!!!

I did give constructive advice, I empathize with the victims of her imcompetence more though. What she's asking is after the fact incorrect notarizations and that affects other peoples lives. As someone else pointe out, this isn't a DUTY where on the job training is used, we must do our job correctly and that requires asking before hand not afterward.

Reply by rengel/CA on 10/5/08 10:55pm
Msg #266468

I hope you have a huge E&O policy

You obviously have many notarizations that will be voided, hopefully not all at the same time.

Get the name of a great attorney, and soon.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 10/5/08 11:16pm
Msg #266470

There are only two forms that every notary in every state HAVE to know as part of their duties and I mean duties as In DUTY.
One is an acknowlegement and one is a jurat.
My state did not provide any training at the time I assumed my duties and I had to learn the hard way--asking.
Give the gal a break but also she should be castigated for not asking sooner.
Call your SOS with any questions hon and hope you get someone knowlegable and patient.

Reply by LindaP/OH on 10/6/08 7:46am
Msg #266476

This notary should be giving up her commission!! We all know she has injured some in the private sector, who knows how many. She is not really interested in hearing what she needs to do and feels that we are being "mean" to her. It is soooo disturbing and ANGERING that she is out there claiming to be something she is not; she is one of the MAIN REASONS we have to endure so much hand holding, fax-backs, etc. from the hiring entities--its no wonder that those entities make those requirements if this is what they have to deal with. Shame on those who do not prepare before inflicting themselves on the unsuspecting!! GET TRAINING!!!

Reply by SONDEE WATTS on 10/6/08 9:24am
Msg #266479

Anna,

And you thought you could find friendly support on this site. Goodluck!

Reply by MW/VA on 10/6/08 1:45pm
Msg #266505

STOP ALREADY! This gets like sharks on a feeding frenzy. The only person we're responsible for is ourselves. We were all new & floundering at some point. I participate in the forum for the SHARING OF INFORMATION/EXPERIENCE/EXPERTISE. I've been grateful for it.
When you help another notary, you help the whole profession. I don't know how some have so much time to be non-productive.

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 10/6/08 3:36pm
Msg #266521

something not mentioned

In California:

If the verbiage of a document does not match your state wording , you replace the acknowledgement or Jurat with an all purpose one to match what your particular state has mandated for notaries wording.


No one in this blog, mentioned this as an option.

Reply by Richard Schauer on 10/6/08 4:10pm
Msg #266525

Re: something not mentioned

I run a Notary Public School and I can see why so many people are mad at the question. This is a business. You are suppose to train, market, and keep yourself informed about the Notary Business if you want to be a mobile notary. If you are going to enter into mobile marketing, you should be able to answer questions about the forms. All there is to this business is, right guy, right place to sign, right form. A person with 1 signing is just as good as one with 1000. A new guy can not be out "notarized." People who do all the work to be a good mobile notary and spend the money and time it takes to be successful get a little put off with "I don't get one of the two major forms I need to know".

Reply by Julie/IL on 10/6/08 6:14pm
Msg #266537

Are we going to run this thread into the ground? I think

she gets the point. Hopefully she will see everyones point of views as to what she did wrong and not make the same mistake again. Without mistakes, there would be no learning. However, I agree that it should not be at the borrowers expense.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/6/08 7:36pm
Msg #266540

Re: something not mentioned

"No one in this blog, mentioned this as an option."

That's because she wasn't asking if the wording was correct. And she's not in California. And this isn't a blog

Reply by Notary01 on 10/6/08 8:01pm
Msg #266543

Truly some of the most vicious people anywhere

this forum is quite vicious. I hope that each of you one day ask a dumb question and get torn to shreds in this fashion.

Why does Harry put up with this?

Reply by desktopfull on 10/6/08 8:44pm
Msg #266550

Re: Truly some of the most vicious people anywhere

Most ask for information before completing an acknowledgement that they don't understand how to fill out, not afterward and certainly not after they admit that they have improperly notarized several times on a standard worded acknowledgement. To bad you are more concerned with a notary's feelings than the fact that she has potentially harmed a borrower because she misrepresented herself as a NSA/Notary. Who knows what other documents this woman may have notarized incorrectly, ie: health care directives, a living will, or POA any of these documents would be set aside in a court of law if they are incorrectly notarized. This notary had a duty to find out before acting and causing potential harm. I hope she is carrying a lot of E&O insurance as someone else pointed out, because she is going to need it if she continues behaving irresponsibly.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/6/08 9:08pm
Msg #266555

THAT reponse was vicious to you?

Man, I feel sorry for you.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/7/08 8:27am
Msg #266573

Re: Truly some of the most vicious people anywhere

I'd gues he 'puts up with this' because the advice is good advice. EVERY time someone screws up as a 'signing agent' is a/effects each and every one of us. Everyone can have questions. Everyone certainly makes mistakes. Not knowing the basics of your job and asking to be paid for that job is TOTALLY inexcusable and being 'nice and sweet and flowery' probably isn't going to get the message across.

Reply by desktopfull on 10/6/08 8:28pm
Msg #266547

Re: something not mentioned

See message 266447 "Yes, there are at times we get tricky worded forms and in those instances I use the general forms for my state and attach to the document."

I did mention about using my own states acknowledgement and attaching to document.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 10/6/08 8:44pm
Msg #266549

From a fellow NY notary...

You're catching flak from some people here about this, but I'm not going to blast you because we both know that this isn't really addressed in NY notary law. However, the worst thing you can do is wing it:

"Now I've done it both ways and no one has ever gotten back to me that's it incorrect"

Even if no one has gotten back to you, it should be obvious that only one of the ways can be correct...

With the exception of acknowledgments involving the transfer of real property, NY doesn't tell us what format to use or how things should be filled out. Standard format for a jurat here is "Sworn to before me this ________ day of ________, 20__", but you're not precluded from using other formats.

As others have pointed out, you can generally figure out what goes in the blanks on a strange notarial block by just reading the darn thing... and if you CAN'T figure it out, you can just attach a loose certificate. If you don't have loose certificates for NY, send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward them to you.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/6/08 9:01pm
Msg #266553

This poster got the message along about the fifth or sixth response to her request: She's ill-informed, she perhaps endangered whatever transactions she witnessed, she needs more training than she has, and she should ask questions before, not after, acting.

Those points having been made, the last 30-40 postings were naught but piling on. Give it a rest, for heaven's sake.