Posted by Larry/Ca on 9/24/08 1:03pm
Msg #265158

California notary law question.

Hi All,

I've always looked to section 1189 (c) to support lining out any capacity that was preprinted in the acknowledgement wording. That paragraph speaks to acknowledgements to be filed in another jurisdiction. I can't seem to find any other sections which says that an acknowledgement may not certify capacity. Is there another section that deals with this?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/24/08 1:15pm
Msg #265161

"A notary public may complete a certificate of acknowledgment required in another state or
jurisdiction of the United States on documents to be filed in that other state or jurisdiction,
provided the form does not require the notary public to determine or certify that the signer
holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications
not allowed by California law"

Not an attorney, but the way I read it is that a CA notary may complete a certificate of acknowledgment that is required in other states
(IOW you could complete an acknowledgment that conforms to other states notary requirements)

"provided the form does not require the notary public to determine or certify that the signer
holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications
not allowed by California law"
(IOW - the certificates must not include the capacity of the signer or other determinations and certifications not allowed by CA law. So, I would read it that the capacity of the signer is one of the determinations and certifications not allowed.
They then say an acknowledgment certificate should be in the form showed.

Maybe a CA notary can explain it clearer

Reply by John_NorCal on 9/24/08 1:32pm
Msg #265167

Couldn't be any clearer than what Sylvia posted...

You may complete any acknowledgement intended for out of state purposes providing that it is not contradictory to California law, namely capacity of the signor. It must have the elements of a California acknowledgement as to identification of the signor. I usually find it a lot simpler to use an all purpose acknowledgement, I haven't had any problems doing that.

Reply by Larry/Ca on 9/24/08 1:56pm
Msg #265174

Re: Couldn't be any clearer than what Sylvia posted...

This title company objected to me lining out the capacity preprinted on the acknowledgement. I told her that I was really surprised she hadn't had other california notaries do this. I wanted to send her the section of the law that said I couldn't have capacity in my acknowledgement wording but didn't want to refer to the section that was talking about documents to be filed in another jurisdiction. This is a California DOT, Title company is back east. I just cannot find any other section in the law, besides this section that talks about out of state docs, that says I can't certify capacity.

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/24/08 2:06pm
Msg #265175

I've looked and can't find any other reference either.

I understand your question. I've found no other reference, but I think that one is plenty... CA Notaries may not certify capacity.

There's also an inference in the wording of our ack... "and acknowledged that he executed in his authorized capacity..." The signer asserts capacity, you don't. (I know that doesn't help much, but that's how I understand the wording.)

Caveat lector: I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express, though I did stay at the Wynn Las Vegas Sunday for free, which is a lot smarter than Holiday Inn for $200... fwiw

Reply by Larry/Ca on 9/24/08 2:19pm
Msg #265179

Thanks guys

I have an old book and wondered if anything had changed since I first visited this issue. This is the first time I've ever been called on this practice.

Reply by davidK/CA on 9/24/08 2:59pm
Msg #265182

Larry, here are some things to do:

1. Get an updated copy of the CA notary Handbook at www.sos.ca.gov . You can download it and then print it out to carry with you.
2. Get some CA All-Purpose Acknowledgement forms and use them whenever you acknowledge a document unless the preprinted wording EXACTLY matches current CA law.
3. The current CA Jurat language is mandatory, and you cannot substitute language from any other state, period.
4. And finally, ignore the directions of Title Companies, Lenders and Brokers (especially those "who used to be a Notary" who do not understand current CA Law so that YOU stay out of trouble. Wrong is wrong no matter what they say.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 9/25/08 1:04am
Msg #265268

Good advice for any state, davidK/CA!

No matter what state the Notary is in, she or he must obey that state's laws.

The Notary Public is responsible for the notarial acts. "Everybody does it", "Nobody else ever refused", and the like won't save your butt in court. And neither will saying "But on Notary Rotary they said ...."