Posted by JK/TX on 9/19/08 10:04pm
Msg #264795

When you attach a California notary Cert to a document;


Do you print 4 certs to an 8.5x11 page and cut them into 4 strips and attach a ¼ of an 8.5x11 piece of paper to a document ?

That’s what I received back in my office today from a California notary Public. And the Notary Public ‘stapled’ this ¼ strip of paper to the notary cert sent with the document and in some instances it was ‘stapled’ to the page that had both the borrower signature and the preprinted notary cert.

I know paper is costly, but damng!

And to top it off…. The notary used some of the certs that were sent with the documents which were worded that same as some he ‘could not use’. Also, the notary used a stamp (stamped cert on the cert page sent with the document) that had the correct CA cert as opposed to using the ¼ strips.

I don’t really understand the reasoning behind CA’s revised cert or any cert that requires an ’exact’ language. To me (thank you for asking) it is a setup for an invalid document.

What are the lawmakers or rule makers smoking or is it the smog? (just kidding….but seriously!)

Reply by John_NorCal on 9/19/08 10:37pm
Msg #264799

Sounds like you're dealing with a bozo, or as Becca would call him, a real momo. I can't see any reason why he would do that other than he's maybe thinking of cut out dolls and can't figure out how to do that...... Ya never know. But it does take all kinds, I've talked to someone who is convinced that by taking a course through the NNA she is now a certified notary, as we know there ain't no such animal.

Seriously, while I don't understand the rationale between the changes they made this past year on our acknowledgements, i.e., taking out "personally known", I can understand wanting specific wording. Without that you can just imagine what would be passed off as notarial language.

Reply by JK/TX on 9/19/08 11:35pm
Msg #264806

Well, that Notary is probably right, she may be certifiable, I think the one I had the pleasure of encountering today is certifiable too.

.....the notarial language.... what separates CA's from the others? The sentence that requires to notary to swear that the affiant swore?


Yep, I love that word.... momo.... I use it as a replacement word and it keeps me out of trouble... thanks Becca!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/20/08 2:45am
Msg #264808

The most recent changes involved two major items. First, that all ack's must have the statement that the notary is certifying the ack is true "under penalty of purjury". The second change removed the potential use of personal knowledge as a method to ID someone, so the wording that indicated that as a possible choice has been removed.

Previously, there were new requirements to jurats, i.e. that it includes the name of the person taking the oath and that they personally appeared before us. California now requires that exact wording for ALL jurats taken in this state, regardless of where they are to be filed.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/20/08 6:52am
Msg #264811

"Yep, I love that word.... momo"

Try Jackbag, lol.
Another Becca-ism.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/20/08 8:27am
Msg #264820

"Yep, I love that word.... jackbag." n/m

Reply by sue_pa on 9/20/08 8:38am
Msg #264822

John, you must be "old". I tried to find paper dolls for my grandaughter and there is no such thing anywhere. When did Betsy McCall disappear ???

Reply by jba/fl on 9/20/08 8:59am
Msg #264827

When did Betsy McCall disappear ???

A while back =- not sure really. I went to one of those Cottage-type stores with Victorian stuff thrown in - you know the kind I hope - and found paper dolls w/wardrobe on a tablet in heavy stock paper for about $10. You have to do the coloring/painting, whatever to everything. My 20 yr. old GD loves to color to this day - amuses her and the 4yr old gets to play, but not color (teehee! So funny to see 20 yr. get so possessive about this right!)

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/20/08 9:08am
Msg #264828

Re: When did Betsy McCall disappear ???

Check this link out

http://www.dollkind.com/betsy-mccall-doll.shtml

Reply by PAW on 9/20/08 7:19am
Msg #264812

>>> Do you print 4 certs to an 8.5x11 page and cut them into 4 strips and attach a ¼ of an 8.5x11 piece of paper to a document ? <<<

Absolutely not. Some counties, I know of two here in Florida, that want (almost require) ALL pages in a recorded document to be full size. And one of those counties now wants it ALL on LETTER size paper. This includes any "attachments" and loose certificates. So, the document you mentioned, if it were to be sent for recording here, would probably be rejected since the ¼ page slip of paper would get jammed in the scanner and maybe even ripped, thus needing replacement.

The recorders aren't happy with the staples either, but it was recommended by our former Secretary of State to staple the loose certificate to the signature page of the document in question.

Reply by JK/TX on 9/20/08 10:08am
Msg #264829

<<< ..... ¼ page slip of paper would get jammed in the scanner and maybe even ripped, thus needing replacement.>>>>>


Yes, this Notary is a real piece of work.... and definitely not an analytical thinker.

I got lucky in that he did not use a mini-ack for the deed of trust.

I did not know what to do about the notary 'slips' so I just left them stapled to the docs and they will go back to the lender that way. I figured I would let them decide how they want the micro certs attached in order from them not to be lost in the shuffle....geez.

Hopefully all the loan docs that required an ack or jurat don't ever have to be recorded. I'm sure the lender will throw a fit, like I did. And they still may want replacements..... it might be hard to sell that loan when the docs consist of pieces of paper. We'll see.

Reply by sue_pa on 9/20/08 7:45am
Msg #264815

Like JK, I'd want it in writing that they give you the go ahead to record AND also that you are recording only, not doing a bring down (updating title). Also, you need to know ahead of time what they expect of you if either document is rejected for some reason - record what's accepted, return both, doctor up and correct an error, front funds out of your pocket, etc.

For a short time, when I closed a loan for GAC, I also recorded the Mortgage after the 3 days - getting someone giving me the go ahead in writing was a HUGE effort so I quit after a few times.

By the way, in my town, if you record at 8:00 a.m. there is never anyone there - the later in the day and the closer to month end the more of a chance to wait in a line. Parking is also easier that early.

Reply by sue_pa on 9/20/08 7:46am
Msg #264816

WELL THIS WENT TO THE WRONG PLACE !!! IGNORE n/m

Reply by davidK/CA on 9/20/08 11:42am
Msg #264833

NOTROT sells Acks and Jurats for California!!! n/m

Reply by GWest on 9/20/08 12:00pm
Msg #264835

Way it used to be

This is very old school. Calif. Acknowledgements were sold in 1/4 of page size and they were stapled to the document, first over the signature, then they were stapled to a separate page attached to the document. This was in the 70's & early 80's, and I have not seen it done this way in a long time.

Reply by Dave_CA on 9/20/08 1:11pm
Msg #264843

no excuse for

the strips of paper but a "possible" explanation for using some certs and not others could be:
1. In CA we may complete an ack. to be filed in another State as long as it does not require us to certify capacity, etc.
2. The exact CA language must be used on all jurat's regardless of where they will be filed.
If the language is not correct for a CA ack. I stamp " SEE ATTACHED CA COMPLIANT CERTIFICATE" and staple a loose ack to the page.
If it is a jurat, and there is enough space, I use the CA jurat stamp available here, If there is not sufficient space I staple a loose jurat.
So, you could get a package, for an out of state property, with the pre-printed acknowledgments filled in but both a loose CA jurat or a CA jurat stamp.
I'm not saying this is what happened but this could make sense.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/20/08 4:32pm
Msg #264852

I'd like to think (in my dreams, I guess) that someone who tries to do loan signing would at least know how unprofessional this is. I don't think there is any point in trying to second guess the laws. As a notary, my view is that the laws are what they are, but it's our responsibility to know what they are and to conduct ourselves accordingly. As for a cert that is 1/4 of a piece of paper...? Seems to me just common sense to add a whole page if you have to add anything vs just using a stamp, when appropriate.

"Seriously"!! You said it!!