Posted by enotary/va on 9/10/08 9:07pm
Msg #263873

Your Thoughts

I did a refi closing on Monday. We sat in a dark living room on the sofa with 2 small dogs climbing all over us. The first item was the Bo SS# were wrong on all the docs. The second item was they had the Bo as married. They were not. Today i got a call that the date for the right to cancel that the loan co had typed in was wrong. I always check these dates but must have missed this one. I like the people at the title co. so i told them i would go back to solve the problem (110 miles one way). What would you have done?

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/10/08 9:16pm
Msg #263876

Sounds like you needed to stay in a Holiday Inn! n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/10/08 9:16pm
Msg #263877

If it's a company I like who send me a lot of work, I'd probably do the same thing in your shoes - good PR and all - BUT...110 miles one way? Since it's not your job to proofread the documents for the lender, I would have negotiated at least a decent travel fee for the return trip - if the error was yours then it's on you - if it's not, then you deserve to be compensated for your time, gas and wear and tear for a 220 mile trip. And if the company does like you they should have no problem with that. JMHO

Reply by GA/Atty on 9/10/08 9:17pm
Msg #263878

It depends on what breed the dogs were..........

Just kidding........



I might have suggested that they send the corrected NoRTC directly to the borrowers to be signed and returned, as it does not have to be notarized.

If for some reason they could not do that, I would have gone back as you did, because checking those dates is part of the signing agent's responsibility (at least in my way of thinking).

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/10/08 9:33pm
Msg #263879

20/20 hindsight kicked in and I need to backpedal

What occurred to me after I logged off was "How did you not pick up the discrepancy when you reviewed the RTC" - call from the table for authorization to make the corrections....Did you not review the RTC? Just "point and sign"? I think that's the only way you could not see the dates...in which case IMO it's on you...

Sorry...should have thought further before I posted before...I stand by it's not your job to proofread the lender's docs BUT it IS your job to pick up discrepancies at the table and make every effort to get them corrected.

Again..sorry bout that..

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/10/08 9:55pm
Msg #263883

Re: 20/20 hindsight kicked in and I need to backpedal

I would have first asked (because of the distance) if the document could be sent back and forth and have the title co. deduct the shipping charges from your fee since it did not have to be notarized. Much cheaper than gas and time. If this was not an acceptable solution then certainly a trip was in order to correct the oversight.

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/10/08 11:12pm
Msg #263886

Re: 20/20 hindsight kicked in and I need to backpedal

"If this was not an acceptable solution then certainly a trip was in order to correct the oversight. "

I completely disagree. At best, the responsibility for the mistake is split between the notary and whoever filled out the RTC dates. Why should the notary have to eat the entire, VERY considerable cost, of getting it corrected?

And like I said earlier, just because we don't catch their mistake, even if it's on something that should have been easy for us to catch, doesn't make the mistake our responsibility. The lender should be able to fill in an RTC properly, they shouldn't have to rely on us to get it right. It's their screwup, not the notary.

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/10/08 9:51pm
Msg #263882

When it involves 220 miles of driving I think it's fair to have a different set of customer service standards. Since it was them who made the mistake, there's no way I would offer to drive back out to fix it, especially since it's something they could easily send directly to the borrower to be fixed. If it were 10 minutes away, sure, I'd get it done. But eating 4 hours and a tank of gas for something that is so easy to fix? No way.

Yeah, it's our job to double check things, but not catching a mistake that they made does not transfer the burden of the mistake to our shoulders.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/10/08 11:09pm
Msg #263885

<<<Yeah, it's our job to double check things, but not catching a mistake that they made does not transfer the burden of the mistake to our shoulders. >>>

5 Star statement !

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/10/08 10:14pm
Msg #263884

This is a joke...Right? n/m

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/11/08 7:30am
Msg #263911

Becca, could you qualify your statement?

I agree with Linda and disagree with Cali. If there are errors that can be corrected at the table then a competent notary is going to see that ALL errors are corrected and send back a corrected package. How many packages do we handle that have notary instructions concerning the RTC and incorrect dates? The obvious is that the dates may be incorrect (lender), but it is imperative that the NOTARY catches the error. If the title co. will not agree to sending the doc back and forth, then as far as I am concerned it doesn't matter whether it is 2 miles or 110, the onus is on the notary to get it right. I don't agree with "it's half their fault" excuse. All packages are subject to errors, not of our making, but the notary is the end of the line. Ideally we go in with no glitches, but if there are, we should know what steps are necessary to send back a corrected package. The industry acknowledges the possibility of error on the RTC and with explicit instructions tells how to correct it, no excuses whether it is 2 or 110 miles.

Reply by sue_pa on 9/11/08 7:43am
Msg #263914

Agree & disagree

I agree that anyone that knows their job should be alert for anything out of the ordinary and should bring it to their clients attention. I disagree that part of our job is to qc someone else's work. If I see something questionable, I bring it up. If I miss someone else's error, I don't think it's on me. I see what I consider to be 'errors' every week - fees, marital status issues, etc. I don't bring those issues up with my client or the borrowers. What's 'right' for some are 'wrong' in my eyes. Where would you draw the line w/qc work? Also, if I were what we generally call a $50 notary, point and sign is what they would get. I charge more because I know more so my client gets the benefit of my knowledge, but I do not do someone else's job.

SS number errors and marital status errors are easily fixable in the 3 days - I personally would have had ss number errors corrected at the table. Marital status I wuold have called about.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/11/08 8:23am
Msg #263920

Re: Agree & disagree

I agree with what you way. This was about the RTC which is basic 101. She is having to step up the the plate over one of the most basic documents in the packages. We have been given license and are expected to make the correction on this document without having to call the title co. I

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/11/08 5:31pm
Msg #263991

Re: Becca, could you qualify your statement? Sure, Snoopdog,

First off 110 miles one way? That's crazy! I would charge a minimum of $375+ for a closing that far away or better yet, I would refer it to a network member that was closer. Second, SS numbers and marital status wrong on the 1003 is something that should be discussed with the LO and TC so that necessary corrections could be made at the table or arrangements could be made to o/n the brws a corrected copy during the recision period. The RTC thing is just a joke to me. How can you not notice a incorrect date on an RTC? If you are doing your job properly, reviewing the RTC with the brws and can count on one hand, how on earth do you miss this? There are two dates on this doc, the date of the closing and the date the RTC ends. There can be no wrong answer here. Way too many things going on here to ignore, IMO.

What I would have done, if I knew the dates were correct on the RTC? I would have told the TC nicely that there is no need to pay me another fee to go out and get this done for them when they could simply o/n the docs to brws along with an envelope to have them returned.

If I overlooked the RTC (highly unlikely) I would offer to pay for the o/n shipping charges or have them deduct the charges from my pay.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 9/10/08 11:23pm
Msg #263887

For future signings

Sometimes signing on a sofa or other difficult place cannot be avoided, however when confronted with a situation such as this, I look around for a table, bar or other and ask to sign there. If I get a little resistance from the BO, I apologize for the inconvenience and tell them I would really appreciate it because I have a very bad back. 99.9% of the time, the BO won't have an issue with it and then you can avoid the problem that caused the oversight completely. A little humility can go a long way.

Reply by desktopfull on 9/11/08 12:06am
Msg #263891

I agree with Becca, your joking, right? Since the RTC doesn't have to be notarized, why do you have to drive back to the borrower. The TC could easily FAX a corrected doc to the borrower, have them sign it and FAX it back and pop the original in the mail if necessary.

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/11/08 12:27am
Msg #263896

110 miles 1 way???? Wow, that's your first problem. n/m

Reply by Kathy Fletcher on 9/11/08 12:49am
Msg #263897

Re: About those dogs!

I always ask the borrower to remove their dogs from the signing location if they start to disrupt the closing in any way. It is alot easier to make mistakes having the animals in the way. Just let them know you are uncomfortable with this!

Reply by sue_pa on 9/12/08 8:33am
Msg #264036

agree

I will no longer allow dogs to jump on me. I had one last Friday evening - I called from the car and told them to tie the dogs up or I wouldn't get out of the car - they actually said that the German and (I later found out) lab/doberman mix were 'nice'. Too bad - I'm not coming in with 2 100+ pound dogs jumping on me.

Reply by ikando on 9/11/08 6:48am
Msg #263909

It seems to me there were more problems with the docs than the RTC. If the SS# and marital status were wrong, then a whole new package should have been provided. If that was the case, then it seems it would have to be a new signing, for which I would expect full payment.

Reply by 101livescan on 9/11/08 9:31am
Msg #263928

I hope you factored in 50 cents a mile, roundtrip twice, plus the signing fee and edoc fee and whatever else....you're probably the closest notary/LSA to the borrower? But definitely, the RTC thing is something we should never mess up on, it is one of the critical documents to the closing and must be correct, always! Experience, what you get when you don't get paid, or don't get paid enough for the scope of work.

Reply by enotary/va on 9/11/08 10:23am
Msg #263934

Re: Your Thoughts ===== Response

Loan Company wants a complete new set of docs. I guess with the ss# changes and everything else its best. I'll never miss rtc date again!!!!

Reply by MW/VA on 9/11/08 11:16am
Msg #263943

Re: Your Thoughts ===== Response

Sounds like that is exactly what needed to be done in the first place. The RTC dates would be a moot point if docs weren't correct. I don't know what part of VA you're in, but I can't imagine traveling 110 miles for a signing. You are due a full fee for the 2nd trip, of course.

Reply by dickb/wi on 9/11/08 8:17pm
Msg #264003

if you were only worried about the RTC dates there is....

no reason they should be of any concern.........

(1) The date of the transaction, which is September 11, 2008; or
(2) The date you received your Truth in Lending disclosures; or
(3) The date you received this notice of your right to cancel.

is at the top of the RTC and pretty much end any discussion.....the latest to occur of the above determine the period. if the dates were wron then item #2 or #3 would apply automatically or if both occured at the same time then both would apply......IMHO it is not my job toget all hung up on a RTC....just my .02.........i copied and pasted the above from a RTC from a closing i just returned from.......