Posted by chell on 9/10/08 4:44pm
Msg #263845

honest opinion please

did a closing 9-9 for a title comp. 1 form is an ID form that the Notary fills in and the Notary signs, borrower does not sign....title co asked me today to fill out an all purpose ack with the borrowers names and notarize it I asked them why today and she said it was a new thing this lender wants done i told them no i can't notarize my signature and they said they will take me out of the database and that all the other Notaries have no problem with it (but i thought it was new) anyway what would you do

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 9/10/08 4:52pm
Msg #263846

The only time I provide a general acknowledgment, that is separate from a document, I clearly indicate the name of the document it is attached to, along with the number of pages and date of doc, plus escrow # and loan #. I staple it to the signed document. There is a title company that asks you to notarize a page where you fill in ID and you sign it (not the borrowers) and they ask you to affix your seal. I simply note that page "illegal use of seal" and have not had an issue. We are regulated by state law, not by title companies.

Reply by Cam/CA on 9/10/08 4:58pm
Msg #263847

Re:Correct, you can't notarize your own signature. Maybe

they want an loose ack. from you to attach to another document. Only once have I had someone make an issue of it, it was for a boat loan eventually after going around in circles B of A agreed with me.

Reply by chell on 9/10/08 5:06pm
Msg #263848

Re: Re:Correct, you can't notarize your own signature. Maybe

i asked her the name of the doc and she said it was the id form that i filled out and signed and i told her that was a no no so since i won't do it i will not be getting calls from that branch.....well good because i am not losing my commission for that...but i am really pissed...i have been working steady with them since Nov and now this...i refuse to go down with what may be a sinking ship

Reply by Tish/CA on 9/10/08 5:24pm
Msg #263850

who was the lender? n/m

Reply by chell on 9/11/08 9:55pm
Msg #264013

Re: who was the lender?

lender is CW and the form is the Notary Certification

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/10/08 5:57pm
Msg #263857

I would tell her that not being able to notarize your own signature is pretty universal in notary law across the 50 states, and that if the rest of her notaries are doing it, then she needs to be very worried because they obviously aren't too familiar with their notary laws. If they don't know something that basic, imagine all the other things they don't know.

Then I'd forget they even existed. Any company that is only willing to use me if I don't follow basic laws is a company that I don't want anything to do with anyway. I can only guess how many other laws they think shouldn't apply to them either. And if their response to you not doing something illegal is that they won't use you anymore, that shows how much respect they have for their signing agents and how non existent their ethics are.

Look at it as their doing you a favor by saving you a lot of future headaches and arguments.

Reply by sue_pa on 9/10/08 6:19pm
Msg #263860

Chell - PA is different than a lot of states. Many notaries in other states would say you cannot notarize many of the id forms we see. I can't recall more than one or two throughout the years that I could not notarize and even then only had to doctor up a word or two. What many would call "notarize our own signature" in PA is certifying - the borrower doesn't sign - just the notary.

Of course, wanting an ack when the borrowers didn't even sign the doc is just wrong, any way shape or form.

Reread the notary block - I'm betting it's a certification and you could have notarized the original.

Reply by chell on 9/10/08 8:23pm
Msg #263871

i'm not following you Sue can you please explain further, they were asking me to fill out and attach a loose ack to the Notary certification page which was just their ID info that i filled out and signed there was no space on the same page, AND it was the day after the signing and they want me to date for the day before AND there was nothing in my SA instructions to do this. I have sometimes done loans that have ID cert that have to be notarized but they usually are ones where i blah blah blah certify that borrowers have presented ID blah blah blah and those i have no problems with.

Reply by sue_pa on 9/11/08 7:36am
Msg #263912

You can't do the ack for several reasons - unless they send you back and the borrowers sign the document. 1. Your borrowers didn't sign the document so you aren't acknowledging theri signatures. Seems pretty basic - not sure why they can't grasp that one. 2. Even if you go back to the borrowers and they do sign, you must notarize for the date they appear in front of you. Unlike so many on these boards seem to do, in PA we cannot send acks after the fact - we have no such thing as "reacknowledging".

I've read for years that people say they don't notarize these forms. I'm never sure how that really works because I know my clients would return any docs that need notarized - a 'note' from me saying I can't/won't do it wouldn't be good enough - and I'd lose a client if I'd refuse. Whatever is on that form is doable (whether ack, jurat or certification) - you just have to work with it sometimes.

I'm talking about the original notary block verbige - seldom is that wrong for us - when the word 'certify' is in there it's almost always doable - sometimes it needs a little bit of tweeking but it's not a problem. When you are the one certifying, the borrowers don't sign the form but you sign & stamp. In PA, that does not constitute 'notarizing your own signature' although for years many, especially from other states, seem to think it does.

I've found that most times all they really want is a notary stamp on the doc and I can make whatever language is on there work because we do have certification powers.

I sent you my fax number last evening - fax me the form and I'll take a look at it for you.

Reply by sue_pa on 9/10/08 6:19pm
Msg #263861

Chell - PA is different than a lot of states. Many notaries in other states would say you cannot notarize many of the id forms we see. I can't recall more than one or two throughout the years that I could not notarize and even then only had to doctor up a word or two. What many would call "notarize our own signature" in PA is certifying - the borrower doesn't sign - just the notary.

Of course, wanting an ack when the borrowers didn't even sign the doc is just wrong, any way shape or form.

Reread the notary block - I'm betting it's a certification and you could have notarized the original.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 9/10/08 7:53pm
Msg #263868

Enough notaries must keep filling these out that they keep putting them in. Just ignore it unless you make a goof on a doc and the borrowers copy also-then it comes in handy. Or also if you get home and find a goof before sending the pkg. out. As mentioned identify the document it is attached to.
If it was not loose but was part of the ID verification just have the borrowers sign it--make a line. Then you'll have something to notarize.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 9/10/08 7:58pm
Msg #263869

Wrote before I saw Sue's post.
If it's PA, she knows, trust her guidance.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/10/08 9:11pm
Msg #263874

Here was my experience with a so-called notary affidavit

I had a closing with a company that had a document called the Notary's Affidavit. It had the venue, the body which started out with-- I hereby certify, under the penalty of perjury,etc. Then underneath that it read--I notarized the signature of___. And below that were other blanks to be filled out including my name and address. I faxed this to the MS. SOS and here is what they faxed me back. "The document purports to be an affidavit. However, it does not provide an acknowledgement. It should also be noted that an affidavit may not be notarized by the affiant where the affiant herself is the notary." This company wanted me to put my seal on it and I was also told this had never been a problem by other notaries. I refused. I keep the SOS letter for any future demands.

Reply by Barbara Taylor on 9/11/08 6:21am
Msg #263905

Re: Here was my experience with a so-called notary affidavit

Catch 22. Beware of what is set before you. Notaries, you all must read your section before you do anything. Make sure before you go check all of the pages for where you need to notarize and if a problem such as this occur, before you go to your closing, call the company back and ask to speak to their attorney, which should be on board and/or the head closer in charge and if you are a member of the NNA, (this is what you are paying your membership for) ask them (fax it over to them) and get their professional advice, and if they can't answer the question for you then something is wrong with the whole picture.

Reply by Dennis_IN on 9/11/08 7:27am
Msg #263910

I have seen this form before and I added a line for the borrower to sign. I did have to change the notarial wording to reflect that I notarized their signature not mine.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 9/11/08 8:07am
Msg #263918

How does adding a line for the borrower to sign change the fact that it is the notary that is the affiant? And also how did changing the notorial block change who the affiant is? It is the notary who is being asked to swear or affirm that the info is correct, not the borrower. How can the borrower sign something that he or she is not swearing or affirming? How can one have the borrower sign a document that the statement ,under penalty of perjury , he or she is authorized to act as a Notary Public in said co. and state and has examined the ID? For the other poster, the SOS is the go to entity, not the NNA.

Reply by Teri_PA on 9/11/08 8:46pm
Msg #264008

Since this is a PA person, PA notary law prevails. The reality is that as Sue said, in PA, notaries can CERTIFY anything, and the only signature on the form is that of the notary. After the fact, you cannot complete an acknowledgment, but you certainly can complete a CERTIFICATE that states that you CERTIFY that you copied the identifying information (or whatever else they wanted) from the Drivers licenses listed on X date. You then sign and date the form with the current date, ensuring you have your Venue in place. If you think things through carefully and look at all the notarial powers you have, almost always you can find a way to meet the needs of the client without breaking the law (exceptions, of course, are backdating of acknowledgments or jurats...that you just cannot do)....

Reply by sue_pa on 9/12/08 8:38am
Msg #264037

oh my

chell faxed me the document. Her client is clearly not paying attention to something on this one. It was a C-wide. There are 2 id affidavits in C-wide packages - one the borrower signs w/their address & ss number on it - we notarize. The other is the form with one with the 6 little sections - we fill in the info and sign it. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE TO NOTARIZE THIS DOC NOR DOES IT REQUIRE NOTARIZATION. I was mistaken when I read her original post and I assumed it was a title company or other id affidavit. Anyone who has done a C-wide loan knows this doc and I'd be 99.999% certain no one has ever notarized it ... not as she was told no one else has a problem with notarizing.

I'd be on the phone with the manager rather than lose this client over what is very clearly an error in judgment by some employee.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/12/08 9:21am
Msg #264048

Is that the one where you fill in info for two forms of

ID and sign that you saw the originals? If it's the one I'm thinking of, absolutely the person speaking with her is wrong and Chell should speak with a higher up asap to preserve her status with the company. MHO