Posted by Cari on 4/14/09 6:36am
Msg #284821

Email to the Cook County Recorder of Deeds Office

Below is for all ILLINOIS NP's and NSA's...Apparently in Cook County, our Recorder of Deeds office has been consulting with the NNA with regard to our new upcoming IL notary law changes, and I felt a strong need to send the email below, because I believe the new notary law warrants FREE notary public training...the NNA is just going to reap in the profits for a training that should be absolutely free!
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I just wanted to let this office know, in case it wasn't aware, that the National Notary Association (NNA) is charging IL notary publics for training on the new IL notary laws?!

In these economic times, where income is very uncertain, any income generated from performing notarial acts or notary signing agent duties is already at its bare minimum. It is absolutely appalling and an outrage that the NNA is actually charging for training, when this training should be offered by our SOS or this office, for FREE!

On behalf of myself and other registered notary publics, I am formally requesting that this office or the SOS office, provide FREE NOTARY PUBLIC TRAINING to all active Notary Publics with regard to the new IL Notary Law. It is only fair and just!

In addition, not all Notary Publics are registered members of the NNA, as it is not the only nationally recognized assocation out there. The NNA has a horrible reputation, among some notary publics/nsa's, of overcharging its members and non-members for notary training on all levels, and some notary publics/nsa's refuse to join this particular association because of this.

If this office or the SOS could provide FREE training on the new IL Notary Law, I would gladly VOLUNTEER my time to train or assist with the training.

I can be reached at the number below or feel free to forward to this email to someone who can help with my request.

Thank you for your time.

Caridad Rivera, NP/NSA
Chicago Notary Services
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IL is one of those lame duck, if you will, states that has had one of the the worst notarial laws on the books, and now, the state is trying to reform itself, after a devasting case against an IL notary public...and rightfully so, don't get me wrong. I'm all for changes, but the problem I have is the NNA charging its members, to learn about these new changes, when this training should be given to us FREE from the SOS office. I mean, why should IL NP's have to pay for this particular training, when the State didn't offer any training for NP's in order to obtain its notary public commission?? And, I wouldn't be so impartial for the State to charge for the training, though at a much lesser cost, because it would benefit my State, and NOT the NNA!

To become an IL notary public doesn't require extensive training or passing an exam like in LA or CA, and perhaps, in the future, further reform would benefit the IL notary public, but for now, I think IL notaries need a break and get any training on the new IL notary laws for free!

The NNA is charging at the minimum $99.00 for an online course, PLUS, a 1 year membership!
Glad to see that the NNA has found another source to rape notary publics, while reaping in the bucks!

Thanks NotRot for having this forum and readers, had to get this off of my congested and achy chest! Chicago weather, ugh!

Reply by oldhippie_IL on 4/14/09 8:17am
Msg #284840

Bring up the NNA and my stomach turns. Cari, please send me a heads up on things if you don't mind.....(about the new laws). I'd ask Bob, but he is forgetful. Just teasing Bob! He is a sweetie pie..

Reply by Lee/AR on 4/14/09 9:51am
Msg #284853

Obviously, not from IL, but I was raised in Chicago~~
The 'training' is just another money grab & nauseating. However, think all Illinois Notaries ought to bombard the SOS along with the powers-that-be in Cook County.

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 10:19am
Msg #284862

Totally agree with you Lee/AR!

For those NP/NSA's that want free notary training by our SOS, below is their contact information. I encourage each IL notary public, to send the office a demand letter, demanding free notary training with regard to the new notary law effective 6/1/09...

Not sure if my fellow IL notaries realize but, if they work in this biz like me, as freelance/independent notary, effective 6/1/09, WE are the ones that will be responsible for going to the county clerk's office to record any new document conveyances that we notarize, by filing the 'new notarial' form, which we now have to do in order to be incompliance with the new law, and the measly $25.00 our legislators allow us to charge is seriously NOT going to cover the notaries time, parking and hassle!

Contact Information:

IL Secretary of State's Office
Jesse White
213 State Capitol
Springfield, IL 62756

Call toll-free within Illinois: 1-800 252-8980
************************************
I'm working on finding an email address and will post soon!

Reply by HKB on 4/14/09 10:31am
Msg #284871

Re: Totally agree with you Lee/AR!

Just an IDEA. I'm not an IL notary but I'm from IL, Cook County. I have visited Cook County Office many many times. Cook County has huge meeting halls and can conduct the training once a week (for 3 to 4 weeks) which would cover all interested notaries.

From earlier post it seems an hour should cover the training...... so Cook County can have many one hour sessions one day of the week and this too should cover all interested notaries.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/14/09 10:13am
Msg #284860

So, is Illinois going to require that notaries public receive training on these new laws?

I guess I'm confused, though... why do you need to be trained how to properly record a notarization in your journal and take a thumbprint? That information is already available for free online, here are several other places.

All this new law really requires is a one page informational sheet or brochure telling you what to do. It's not all that complicated, and I'm sure plenty of Illinois notaries public have been using a journal and thumbpad for some time now on their own accord.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 4/14/09 10:22am
Msg #284863

The requirements to join the NNA for this training, if that is the case, falls under anti trust laws. Wasn't the NNA being investigated for this by the FDIC?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/14/09 10:24am
Msg #284864

The DOJ, I believe.. n/m

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 10:28am
Msg #284867

investigated?? interesting...I didn't know this...

The training they are offering IL notaries, with regard to the new IL laws, includes a one year membership....how bogus is this?

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 10:25am
Msg #284866

I thought that too, but as I read all the new requirements..

its not as easy as I thought....

IL never required notaries to have a journal or thumbprint before, for any notarial act, so getting a book and an inkpad is easy...But, the catch is, for independent notaries, we have to do more than just the notarial act....not only do we have to use a "special form", for document conveyances, which isn't available anywhere yet, and which my county is working with NNA to produce, but we have to travel to our local county clerk's office to record the document, and pay the $5 fee! (The recording at the county clerk's office doesn't apply to those notaries that work for TC or lawfirms)

Training is definetly needed to make sure IL notaries perform this new notarial act properly and in accordance to the new law....I certainly do not want to get sued...and they way Cook County operates, it's already chaotic...nobody down there really knows what any of the departments do...it's going to be a zoo!

The NNA is totally taking advantage of this and it makes me sick that they are getting away with this.

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 10:30am
Msg #284868

email link below..you can ask them a question or complain!

https://www.ilsos.gov/ContactFormsWeb/secretary_contact.html

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/14/09 10:31am
Msg #284870

Wait a minute..wait a minute..yabut yabut..

"not only do we have to use a "special form", for document conveyances, which isn't available anywhere yet, and which my county is working with NNA to produce"

If you're talking about recordable documents (required to be recorded with deeds of conveyance) why in the world is Cook County working with the NNA on this? Shouldn't this be up to your state's bar association to develop the required, legal format?? Since when does an independent organization draft documents for inclusion in county records to meet the Standards of Title for the state??...Jeez Louise...

And if you don't belong to the NNA now, are you going to be required to join to get the training if it's not offered elsewhere?

Washington, are you listening????!!!

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 10:36am
Msg #284873

I've sent an email to the IL SOS and now working on

one to the Attorney's General Office!

Reply by Les_CO on 4/14/09 10:36am
Msg #284874

I too am not from IL, and I’m confused. Since when can some clerk and recorder change the States Notarial Laws? Now I understand there are some changes to IL Notarial law regarding ID required…that I understand. The stipulations regarding the recording or documents may fall under the auspices of the current recorder (like requiring signatures to be in black ink, as I’ve heard the Cook CO bureaucrats have required for some time.) But what has this to do with “Notarial Law” or the NNA?

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 10:43am
Msg #284875

here's the new law...of course taken from nna website..

Notary Law Update: Senate Bill 546

Description:

Establishing a 4-year pilot program, SB 546 requires Notaries to create a “Notarial Record” for any qualifying “Document of Conveyance” affecting or purporting to affect title to residential real property in Cook County, Illinois, from June 1, 2009 through June 30, 2013. The new law specifies the entries for the Notarial Record, including a thumbprint, prescribes a statutory form and provides for the proper disposition of the Notarial Record. The new law allows Notaries who create a Notarial Record to charge $25 for the notarization.

State: Illinois

Effective: June 1, 2009

Signed: October 3, 2009

Chapter: Public Act 988

Affects:

Amends Sections 3-101, 3-102, 3-104, and 6-102 of the Illinois Compiled Statutes

Changes:

1. Defines an identification document as a document that is valid at the time of notarization and that is issued by a state or federal government agency bearing a photograph and signature.

2. Requires a Notary to create a “Notarial Record” of each notarial act performed in connection with a Document of Conveyance affecting or purporting to affect title to residential real property in Cook County, Illinois. (Note: this provision is required of any Illinois Notary who notarizes a document of conveyance affecting or purporting to affect title to real property in Cook County, not just Notaries residing in Cook County.)

3. Defines a “Document of Conveyance” — and excludes certain deeds from the definition — and “Residential Real Property” as a building or buildings located in Cook County, Illinois and containing one to 4 dwelling units or an individual residential condominium unit.

4. Specifies that each Notarial Record performed in conjunction with a Document of Conveyance must include: (1) The date of the notarial act; (2) The type, title or a description of the Document of Conveyance and the property index number and common street address of the Residential Real Property; (3) The signature, printed name and residence street address of each person whose signature is being notarized and a certification by the person which states “The undersigned grantor hereby certifies that the real property identified in this Notarial Record is Residential Real Property as defined in the Illinois Notary Public Act.” (4) A description of the satisfactory evidence reviewed by the notary to identify the person whose signature is notarized on the Deed of Conveyance; (5) The date of notarization, (6) the fee charged for the notarial act, (7) the Notary’s home or business phone number, (8) the Notary’s residence street address, (9) the Notary’s commission expiration date, (10) the correct legal name of the Notary’s employer or principal and the business street address of the Notary’s employer or principal; and (11) a thumbprint captured in a physical or electronic medium of each person or agent acting as attorney in fact on behalf of a principal signing the Document of Conveyance.

5. Prescribes that the Notary shall deliver the original Notarial Record to the Notary’s employer or principal if the notarization is performed for an title insurance company or agent, a financial institution or attorney employing the Notary, within 14 days after the notarization is performed for retention by the employer for 7 years as part of the employer’s or principal’s business records. In all other circumstances, the Notary must deliver the original Notarial Record to the Recorder of Deeds of Cook County ($5 filing fee) within 14 days for retention by the Recorder for 7 years.

6. Prescribes a statutory form for the Notarial Record and requires that the Notarial Record be in substantial compliance with this form.

7. Prohibits the Notary from making or retaining copies of the original Notarial Record, but allows the Notary’s employer to retain copies of Notarial Records as part of its business records.

8. Authorizes a court of competent jurisdiction to subpoena a Notarial Record or other medium containing the thumbprint, exempts such Record from disclosure, inspection and copying under the Freedom of Information Act, and prohibits the Record from being made available to any other
party other than a party in succession of interest to the party maintaining the Notarial Record or other medium.

9. Stipulates that a Notary’s failure to comply with the procedure for making a Notarial Record under the law shall not affect the validity of the transaction, absent of fraud.

10. Provides that if there is a breach of security of a Notarial Record, the Recorder shall notify each signer in writing and in the most expedient time possible and without unreasonable delay, consistent with any measures taken by the Recorder to determine the scope of the breach and to reestablish security, confidentiality and integrity of the Recorder’s data system. “Breach” is defined as an unauthorized acquisition of the fingerprint data contained in the Notarial Record.

11. Permits Notaries to charge $25 for any notarial act that involves creating a Notarial Record.

12. Stipulates that the provisions of the law relating to creation of the Notarial Record shall not apply after July 1, 2013.

Analysis:

Senate Bill 546 blazes a new trail in efforts to curb real property fraud in Cook County,Illinois. The “Notarial Record” created under a new 4-year pilot program by SB 546 requires more comprehensive information than a typical journal entry; it may not be kept by the Notary; and it must be delivered either to the title insurance company or agent, financial institution or attorney employing the Notary, or to the Cook County Recorder of Deeds within 14 days of the notarization. Any Illinois Notary who notarizes a Document of Conveyance of residential real property that is situated in Cook County must complete a Notarial Record for the conveyance; therefore this new law could impact anyone of the almost 200,000 Notaries in Illinois. The Notary will have to look carefully at the legal description of the property in a Document of Conveyance to verify that the property is located within Cook County in order to determine whether a Notarial Record must be created. In addition, the Notary will have to know whether the deed being transacted qualifies as a “Document of Conveyance.” The new law exempts many types of deeds, including court-ordered and court-authorized conveyances, judicial sale deeds, deeds transferring ownership of property to a trust where the beneficiary is the grantor, deeds from grantors to themselves that are intended to change the nature or type of tenancy, deeds from a granter to the grantor and another person that are intended to establish a tenancy between the grantor and the other person, deeds in lieu of foreclosure and deeds transferring ownership to a revocable or irrevocable grantor trust where the beneficiary includes the grantor.
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There was a letter from the Cook County of Recorders Office as a link here but I see that its gone...but I have it...will post in a minute!

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 10:48am
Msg #284876

there are three new laws

New Record Law ONLY FOR COOK COUNTY RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES
Effective June 1, 2009

New ID Law
Effective June 1, 2009

New Case Law
Effective now

All Illinois NOTARIES and certain EMPLOYERS OF NOTARIES must comply. All Illinois NOTARIES must comply. All Illinois NOTARIES and EMPLOYERS OF NOTARIES are affected.

Reply by Linda Hubbell on 4/14/09 10:51am
Msg #284877

Whoa...did you see this part?

"The Notary will have to look carefully at the legal description of the property in a Document of Conveyance to verify that the property is located within Cook County in order to determine whether a Notarial Record must be created." AND

"In addition, the Notary will have to know whether the deed being transacted qualifies as a “Document of Conveyance.” The new law exempts many types of deeds, including court-ordered and court-authorized conveyances"

Wow

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 11:12am
Msg #284878

Re: Whoa...did you see this part?....I know!

Here's the link of a letter that was posted on the NNA website from my local Cook County Recorder of Deeds office! I'd like to know who in that office recommended NNA for help!

http://www.nationalnotary.org/il/lawchanges/images/cookCountyStatement.pdf

Reply by Les_CO on 4/14/09 11:31am
Msg #284879

Re: Whoa...did you see this part?....I know!

Okay…I understand…I think. For residential property located in Cook CO IL (only) the Grantors (on the vesting Deed) and the notary will need to fill out and sign a form showing the address of the property being conveyed, along with their respective names and addresses, the ID’s used, the fees charged, and a thumbprint of the Grantors, and send it in to be recorded. Sounds like a paperwork disaster to me, and potential cloud on the title of every residential property sold in Cook CO. But it will add some additional Government jobs, and a couple of extra bucks in your pocket, and nothing you’re not doing now (except thumbprint) and should only take an extra 5 minutes. What I’d worry about is the LIBALITY down the road, when the property sells again, and this “form” contains some error, or perceived error. What moronic legislator thought this one up? I also can’t think the IL Bar Association would be happy with the wording of “Notaries create”!!! As in 'draft' this document, or record? And the "property identification" part! Will you have access to the title work? Are notaries to become "title examiners" too? Buy your E&O insurance now!

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 12:03pm
Msg #284880

funny you should mention E&O insurance....

glad I up'd mine to 100k!

The only thing that I'm really worried about is the horrific task in traveling downtown Chicago to the recorder's office to file the darn document......I mean who is going to pay for my commute, parking, time!

I also just spoke to the person in charge of 'questions' re: the new notary law, at the Cook County Recorder of Deeds office. She was nice, and walked me through to where the new form is currently online - its still in the statutory language! She said their office is not sure if they are going to draft a 'uniform' one, but suggested I draft my own, which I will and have posted on my website shortly. I told them why did they associate themselves with NNA, and she didn't know, she wasn't in charge of that disaster.

I told her that my concern was the actual recording of the document...I explained that I work as an independent contractor for TC and SS and asked who is responsible for recording the document, because once we obtain signatures on the loan docs, we have to send these back to the TC or SS that hired us. She was concerned that the document would be floating around and that could cause for potential 'fraud'...WTF? I asked her then, what do we do. She didn't have an answer!

She suggested I put the new form, with fingerprints and all, in a separate sealed envelope with instructions to the TC or SS that this form needs to be recorded, and give the address, but that they could not open it???

She was really no help here....she said the grantor has to pay for the fees...more money for the TC and SS to charge the purchaser...but can you imagine, asking the borrowers for the extra up front fees to record the darn thing, when the Lender & TC already rapes them with their fees for their loan..ugh...I have a migrane!

I guess there might be a light at the end of the tunnel, in that I can ask for more money from the TC or SS for purchases....we'll see....

I'm going to rest...have a terrible head cold!

Reply by Les_CO on 4/14/09 12:09pm
Msg #284882

Re: funny you should mention E&O insurance....

Also the way I read this is that the NOTARY will be responsible (to PROVE) they sent in “this document” properly drafted, and executed, to the Cook Co. recorder within the 14 day time period, and keep a record of this proof for seven years! (So you’d need to send it certified, mail return receipt, and have the recorded document sent back to you for safekeeping)Then it is stated that the Notary is 'prohibited' of making or keeping copies of such record? So how do you prove you sent it in to be recorded? And how do you prove WHAT you sent in to be recorded was indeed the document in question without a copy of the document? WHAT!??! I don’t know about you guys, but if I were a IL Notary would refuse to do this, (form, or record) or to do any signing on any property in Cook Co. IL. I’d also write my local representative, and explain the liability involved, and the almost impossibility of conforming to this “law” as written.

Reply by Les_CO on 4/14/09 12:15pm
Msg #284883

Cari/ PS

I'd be VERY careful about drafting a legal document and posting it on your web site!!! Talk about UPL! That's it in spades!!

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/14/09 12:26pm
Msg #284885

I fail to see the need for an experienced NSA to receive...

ANY training in order to comply with these new laws.
The "new" ID requirements are just what any competent NSA would
require for a notarization. A government issued, current ID , wtih a
picture and a signature.
The record form is self explanatory, and you can make your own form,
or, as I did, order them from the NNA , for about $10 + a fingerprint stamp, and save the time to make up your own form. Why reinvent the wheel. For those who can't stand the idea of giving $$ to the NNA, then design your own.
The form will generally only be required in the event of a sale. In that case.
a Title Co will usually be involved. Let the title co keep the form in accordance
with the law. I am getting in contact with the TCs that I work with to set up proceedures
to let the TC retain the form when it is required.
If no title co is involved and you don't want to go through the hassle of filing the
form, then decline the notarization.
As far a determining if the property is located in Cook County, a quick glance at
the Legal, will answer that ??. You need only ask to determine if the property is improved
with a residence of four or less units.
Start making these kind of waves, and we will find ourselves with mandatory
NP training as well a continual retraining requirements, as in some other states.
I personally do not need the wasted time or expense.
Really, these new laws are no big deal. And yes, I acknowledge that I initiated the
issue here. I alerted those IL NSAs who may not have been aware of the new law. I think
that should be just about sufficient.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/14/09 1:13pm
Msg #284893

Why not streamline the process and eliminate the

middleman (and therefore all confusion) - just have the thumbprint directly on the deed of conveyance. Then it all gets recorded, the recorder retains the records ad infinitum, and would probably also reduce fraud attempts....

Just a thought.

Reply by Lee/AR on 4/14/09 3:52pm
Msg #284940

Cuz that makes sense & would solve the problem.

Very un-Chicagoish. Too easy. Doesn't create enough confusion. Won't make 3 letter organizations any money. Lots of reasons for not doing this.

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 4:47pm
Msg #284948

Re: Cuz that makes sense & would solve the problem.

ha ha ha...so true so true!

Reply by Pat/IL on 4/14/09 7:42pm
Msg #284990

Re: Why not streamline the process and eliminate the

"just have the thumbprint directly on the deed of conveyance"

The thumb print is not to be recorded in the public records at all. The form containing the thumb print is to be retained by the recorder (or the TC or the lawyer or other entity) for seven years. It is not to become part of the public record, and it is not even to be subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 4:45pm
Msg #284947

...the notarial form....

...so I created the form based on the statute itself, which is what the CCRD did and what they are advising other IL notaries to do...since they are not going to create a standardized form....I'm not afraid of violating any UPL...our IL Statutory Short Form is the same....have had no issues come up with that either...

...Bob_Chicago, what makes you think, that if I "start making these kind of waves" that somehow our IL legislators will enact mandatory training for notaries...seriously?? If they were paying attention to our little notary forums, especially this one, they would've consulted with US, real notaries or at the very least, another notary association that seeks the best interest of their wallets and not the notary!

....and Bob_Chicago, just because YOUUU mentioned this issue, way back when on this forum, doesn't entitle you to sole exclusivity on this subject! I mean did you really think that because you "initiated the issue here" first, that it wasn't going to be raised again? Really? Seriously?

...I suggest you re-read the statute, carefully...I, at first, when you mentioned these changes, way back when, read a summary of the statute and honestly, blew it off...until I received more information about these new legal changes...then my eyes were opened, and they were opened-up wide! And rightfully so...these new changes are something else! And it is not only me with concerns, but there are others on this board who have expressed their concerns regarding these new changes as well.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/14/09 3:38pm
Msg #284938

The NNA runs seminars in every state when there are changes to notary laws. It's a money-making thing for them, for those who buy into it. You are knowledgeable enough to know you don't need the NNA to run a seminar (@$99) to learn the new laws. Obviously, it is the responsibility of the notary to keep up with changes to law. A good source for this is the American Society of Notaries (www.ASNNotary.org). They should have a good handle on the changes you're facing. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm no where near Cook County.

Reply by trnsa_IL on 4/14/09 4:53pm
Msg #284950

While I agree that it is the responsibility of the notary to

adhere to new laws, I also feel that it is the responsibility of the IL SOS's office to inform us when there is a new law that we must adhere to since they are the ones who commission the notaries. I spoke with the IL SOS's office over a month ago when I got the letter from the NNA and they said they were sending their own information out to all IL notaries regarding the changes. I would expect no less.

As I stated in the other posts over the last month regarding these changes in IL I do not feel the NNA should be involved at all. They are just using this as another way to line their "non-profit" pockets.

Bob mentioned a case, Vancura vs Katris, which I feel is the reason for all the change. However, I am still waiting for an attorney friend of mine to read the opinoin and tell me if I understood it correctly.

In this case the NNA is referenced along with a Professor Closen who helped to draft the Model Notary Public Act for the NNA. The circuit court used the professor's testimony in which he states that the notary should have followed the MNPA to base their decision on this case. The appellate court disagreed stating the MNPA was "little more than a series of suggestions", not IL law, and had been rejected by the IL courts previously. You can read the courts response by seraching for message #284137 which is page 54 of the opinoin.

Or you can read the entire opinoin by going to:
http://www.state.il.us/court/OPINIONS/AppellateCourt/2008/1stDistrict/December/1062750.pdf.

You can also read IL SB 546:

Google IL SB 546 and click on the "Illinois General Assembly" link and then choose "full text"

I do not know how to make the link "work", sorry.

Tonya

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 5:06pm
Msg #284955

our new notary changes are a direct result from that court

case...as this new case law is in effect NOW...JMO, I also believe that because certain TC's, the really big ones here in Chicago, employ their own 'in-house' notaries, they bully them to do their evil bidding so to speak....

I believe these in-house notaries, some and not all, are totally scared and/or oblivious to any notary rules and regulations, and do not follow our law, and/or just do what the TC (their boss) tells them to do... as I suspect happened in the with the Vancura case, though again, don't know all the specifics...but based on what has been posted about that case....I have a hunch...I may be right....

Reply by trnsa_IL on 4/14/09 5:17pm
Msg #284956

Re: our new notary changes are a direct result from that court

Actually, if you read the case, I don't think the notary was bullied into doing anything wrong. I think he either left his stamp alone for a moment that lead to the fraud or he notarized a document without the person being present. It had nothing to do with KINKOS directly as the appellate court stated. That's only if I correctly understood what I read. And the whole NNA link is that the circuit court leaned on their MNPA and their "expert" witness.

Reply by Pat/IL on 4/14/09 7:52pm
Msg #284995

I don't think this stems from Vancura vs Katris.

That case didn't even involve a deed of conveyance. There were, however, some recent cases of vacant lots being 'stolen' from various churches on the south side of Chicago. These were properties that were exempt from taxes and, propably, largely forgotten by the churches. Ripe for the picking by fraudsters. If I remember correctly, a lwyer was the mastermind of the scheme.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/14/09 9:05pm
Msg #285024

Correctaamundo n/m

Reply by trnsa_IL on 4/14/09 10:49pm
Msg #285058

Thanks, Pat, that makes more sense. Of course I am no where

near Cook County, nor am I aware of the fraud going on there. Bob referenced this case law the other day in a similar post about this topic, and I suppose I let me mind run away with it. I went back and reread the specifics of the case and it did not involve a deed of conveyance but an assignment of mortgage.

Thanks again for the info.

Since I am not in Cook County, I probably will never have to deal with this notarial record but even if I did I do not think the requirement is too demanding.

I am very happy about the ID requirement change!!!! The IL law has been too relaxed on this issue. A lady at the SOS office toldme that the ID requirement was only relevant for the notarial record in conjuction to the deed of conveyance. I did not read the ID change in the Act to be exculsive. Did anyone else?

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 11:36pm
Msg #285064

I think the Vancura case was the icing on the cake...

which resulted in the immediate enforcement of the new requirements.

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/14/09 4:31pm
Msg #284946

Cari, when CA had new law changes in 2008

...the NNA offered seminars on our law changes - information given freely by our SOS....nothing new with them.

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 4:53pm
Msg #284949

yep...thety did the same here too...

the NNA has a link on their website so if you're not a member, they ask for your name and email, which would then allow you to download the FREE info.....and so of course they'll use your information to sell it or bombard you with tons of spam about joining their association, pay for training...bla bla bla...

it's sickening really...

Reply by Cari on 4/14/09 4:54pm
Msg #284952

sorry for the typos...I think I'm done with this subject... n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/14/09 4:53pm
Msg #284951

Re: Cari, when CA had new law changes in 2008

This reminded me of that, too. Our SOS had a downloadable newsletter on their website that described the changes in as much detail as any reasonably intelligent person would need. (Ours were much simpler changes, though.) The NNA managed to make a whole class out of it, and I'm $ure cleaned up considerably!

It seems to me that most of those new requirements are things that we already do here in CA for nearly every notarization. The info (not quite as extensive) is kept in our journal which we are required to secure. At first, I was picturing this involving every QC or GD, but if it's only for an actual conveyance that would involve a sale, then that would mean significantly less hassle. I'm just surprised that it's the notary's responsibility to file it with the County Recorder. That seems unworkable to me - and would require considerably more than $25 to make it worthwhile, unless you live close to the Recorder's office...

The net result of this might be that nearly all sales will be handled in tc offices by employees. I'd think an independent nsa would have to be doing a lot of transactions involving conveyances -- and maybe setting aside a certain day of each week to go get them recorded. What a pain! Seems like there has to be an easier way to accomplish what they are trying to do. I bet that most notaries decide to just decline these types of transactions. That will really help the public!

Reply by Pat/IL on 4/14/09 8:04pm
Msg #285001

Maybe I'm wrong, but

I didn't see anything that would preclude the notary from simply mailing the form to the recorder's office with the $5.00 fee in the event of a general notarization. Collect the $5.00 fee separate from the $25.00 fee and mail it in with the form. The recorder's office accepts documents for recording by mail, and I am sure they will accept these forms by mail also.

If working on behalf of a title company, send the form to the title company with the rest of the package. No big deal, ferris wheel.

As far as the liability, I think I read in a cut-and-paste above that there are no repercussions for noncompliance unless it turns out to be a fraudulent conveyance.

The molehill resembles a mountain.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/14/09 9:06pm
Msg #285026

Right again n/m

Reply by Pat/IL on 4/14/09 9:47pm
Msg #285043

Mostly just agreeing with your post, Bob.

I do have one concern, though. I will need extensive training on how to take a thumb print. And what color ink to use? Oh, the burden.

Reply by jba/fl on 4/14/09 11:15pm
Msg #285060

Re: Mostly just agreeing with your post, Bob.

Green - color of money of course.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/15/09 12:23am
Msg #285072

Doh! Didn't think about mailing it in...

Good points. Admittedly, I read the whole thing pretty quickly, but the rest doesn't seem like that big a deal to me. Like I said, we already do a good portion of that anyway - but in our journal, not on a separate form - for every notarization. The part about turning it over to an employer felt a little wierd to me, but I was just indoctrinated differently here. We are accountable only to the state when we're wearing our notary hat, and responsible on our own for keeping information secure. (After all, we are the ones who had to qualify and be screened, not the "boss".)

Reply by Angel Richard on 4/14/09 6:10pm
Msg #284974

Thanks for sharing Cari...good info!