Posted by CCountry on 4/22/09 5:10pm
Msg #285962

JMT Documents

Was called to sign tomorrow. Property located in South Carolina. But notarization is done here in California. Since S.Carolina is an attorney state, JMT wanted be to call a pre-arranged attorney that needed to be on a 3way call during the appointment. Also, they requested I bring a "Witness" since the property is in S. Carolina.
Seemed weird to me, so I called the Notary Signing Agent hotline and they confirmed that I do not have to bring a witness as I am required to follow California notary procedures/law.
Has anyone ever had these kind of requests?
Anyway, I called JMT back to let them know I wouldn't be bringing an additional witness, and the rep got all upset and hung up on me. Wasn't that mature?

Reply by Julie/MI on 4/22/09 5:31pm
Msg #285970

Some states recording requirements insist on two witnesses regardless if which state the notarization is taking place. this is why if you are in this business, you need to also be aware of recording requirements.

It's not wierd, and you could have asked for a fee for your witness. If they said no additional fee for the witness, then you could decline.

Reply by Les_CO on 4/22/09 5:34pm
Msg #285973

As far as I know SC is an “Attorney State” You still need to go by CA notarial law. The law requiring witnesses may be under “Real Estate Statutes, not notarial law. I believe SC requires two on recordable documents that effect title to real property. Some times this job is more than point-and-sign...hard to tell schedulers that at EOM.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/22/09 5:43pm
Msg #285974

"so I called the Notary Signing Agent hotline and they confirmed that I do not have to bring a witness as I am required to follow California notary procedures/law"

Was this that nationwide organization I think it is? If so, another fine example of poor advice. Probably just cost you a job and a client.

No, you're not REQUIRED to furnish witnesses - that's up to the borrowers. But the fact that witnesses are required on certain documents in S.C. has nothing at all to do with notary law and everything to do with S.C. Standards of Title and Real Estate Law.

"the rep got all upset and hung up on me. Wasn't that mature"

Maybe not so mature to hang up on you, but I can't blame him for getting upset....your advisor was dead wrong.

MHO

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 4/22/09 5:58pm
Msg #285978

In Connecticut it is the recording statute that determines the need for witnesses. If the property is located in Connecticut and the mortgage is to be recorded in Connecticut then the Connecticut requirement of two witnesses to the signature must be followed regardless of where the closing takes place.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 4/22/09 6:23pm
Msg #285979

I have also done closings where they require witnesses and I am in IL. IL does not require witnesses. Sorry, but you goofed on this one. Chalk it up to experience and move on.

Reply by Kevin/Ct on 4/23/09 4:26pm
Msg #286082

If you are talking for Illinois fine. Do not speak for Connecticut. I know whereof I speak. I have been doing closings and recordings in Connecticut for 24 years. Connecticut Town Clerks will reject a mortgage or deed for recording if not witnesses properly as required by the State's recording statute.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/23/09 4:49pm
Msg #286089

Re: JMT Documents...Kevin...

I think Linda's post was addressed to the original poster - not you...

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/22/09 6:34pm
Msg #285980

I am sometimes requested by the TC to provide a witness or two - signing docs for LA and GA properties comes to mind - but I never provide witnesses. I let the TC know that any witnesses must be secured by the document signers.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/22/09 7:02pm
Msg #285985

As others have said, some states require a witness (or two) for docs that will be recorded in that state. CA notary law has nothing to do with it. It's not your responsibility to provide the witness; that's really up to the borrower. If the SS insists that YOU provide the witness, they should be prepared to pay additional for that.

We don't require a witness here in NY, but for out-of-state properties I've done it every way imaginable. I've provided a witness for an additional fee, imposed on a friend who had nothing else to do at the time, had the borrower provide the witness, and have even convinced a waitress at a diner to witness a signing...

The advice you got was wrong. You need to comply with your state law as far as notarization is concerned, but you also need to be aware of the recording requirements for the state where the property is located. Whoever told you otherwise is a moron.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/22/09 8:48pm
Msg #285993

**I called the Notary Signing Agent hotline a**

Perhaps a case in point as to why they are so well loved here. (Not.)

You need to perhaps learn the difference between property laws, lending requirements and California notary law.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 4/22/09 9:04pm
Msg #285997

From the couple that I have done you don't even notarize the borrowers signature, you notarize the signatures of the witnesses--very strange and had me totally confused.
The lawyer on the phone was a joke "was everything OK" type of thing.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 4/22/09 9:48pm
Msg #286002

Let me guess ....

They were also going to pay you $50.

I quit doing business with these people sometime ago for reasons I previously posted.

They are not very professional.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 4/22/09 9:51pm
Msg #286003

To clairify

I have been at signings where this was done, but it was pre-arranged by the SS and went smoothly.

Reply by ChristineHI on 4/23/09 12:41am
Msg #286019

Yes, I have done some for Georgia, another attorney state, which require an attorney as well as two witnesses, one being me.
In my case we had to get on a phone call to the attorney and the attorney spoke to the borrowers and then they signed a waiver form. That form was then signed by the attorney when it was returned to Georgia.
In my case, both times the borrowers were tourists here in Hawaii so we got a hotel employee to be an additional witness. I was one witness.
It is important for these states that you do it correctly or it will not record. Every state can be different and you must meet the criteria for that state.
You were given poor advice and JMT was correct and understandably upset.

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 4/23/09 11:10am
Msg #286043

Re: JMT Documents - Christine in Aloha State

Christine - you are correct. You can use your state's notary acknowledgment form for notarization, but mortgage/riders or any deeds will not record without two witnesses.

GA/SC law require an attorney to be present if closed in their state, if out-of-state close, you can have the attorney call them and borrowers have to sign a waiver.
You followed the procedure correctly kudos to you

Reply by BobbiCT on 4/23/09 8:06am
Msg #286025

Never call a "hotline" for a legal opinion ...

As Kevin, as CT attorney, politely noted real estate "laws" vary from state-to-state, which may have nothing to do with notarization laws, mortgage or lending laws, recording laws, or title and title insurance laws. Too many "laws" governing one document for a low-fee, non-attorney to be concerned with.

Next time: If you are in doubt about the instructions, call the scheduling company or Company That is Insuring the Title for direction. Ultimately, your mistake may have to be paid out by the title insurance company. If you get direction from them (and document it in your file), you can sleep better at night ... and not worry about someone making a claim on YOUR E&O or bond because you "did what the hotline customer service representative told me." In the event of a disbute, unless it's a pre-paid legal service hotline, I doubt if ANY "hotline customer service representative" will admit to giving you "bad" advice or "legal" advice.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 4/23/09 11:01pm
Msg #286119

Re: Never call a "hotline" for a legal opinion ...

I really wish that someone could sue the pants off xyz and prevail for this stuff.
They spend mega bucks lobbying state legislatures to accept them as the ultimalte authority but then fail dismaly in support for their membership.