Posted by Elizabeth Soliday on 4/28/09 8:28pm
Msg #286610
Jacked up package
Hi all, I have a job tomorrow and I just received the file. It is obvious that this one is the one I was asked to backdate to Saturday which I told them I would not do.
So....the Deed of Trust has 2 page 10's, one with one name (for signature) on it and the other with all four names of the parties involved, three of which were signed on different dates. It is evident that the other three signature lines were TYPED IN after the fact because only the one borrower initialed all the pages of the DOT...OMG.
Then there is an acknowledgment where the California notary claims ALL parties appeared before him (which doesn't even make sense because it's dated April 22 and they signed on different dates)...okay, now I am laughing. Then there is another acknowledgment by ANOTHER notary, looks like from the same area (same office no doubt), acknowledging one of the signatures on the RIGHT date.
What they want me to do is have the fourth guy sign the DOT, but then there is that affidavit from the one notary claiming he appeared before him!
If I send it back, I obviously have to cross out my borrower's name from this notary's acknowledgment and do a loose acknowledgment. The other notary would then need to initial and date it when he gets it.
Should I even touch this one? I don't even want to touch it.
| Reply by jba/fl on 4/28/09 8:47pm
Msg #286613
Sometimes, when I look at a definition of what I am to be doing, I see more clearly my actions without consulting others. I am offering 2 for Integrity for you. I think that you already can guess the final outcome, many here can as well.
integrity (From Webster's online dictionary)
One entry found.
Main Entry: in·teg·ri·ty
Pronunciation: \in-ˈte-grə-tç\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English integrite, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French integrité, from Latin integritat-, integritas, from integr-, integer entire
Date: 14th century
1 : firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : incorruptibility
2 : an unimpaired condition : soundness
3 : the quality or state of being complete or undivided : completeness
synonyms see honesty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrity
Integrity is consistency of actions, values, methods, measures, principles, expectations and outcome. As a holistic concept, it judges the quality of a system in terms of its ability to achieve its own goals. A value system's abstraction depth and range of applicable interaction may also function as significant factors in identifying integrity due to their congruence or lack of congruence with empirical observation. A value system may evolve over time while retaining integrity if those who espouse the values account for and resolve inconsistencies.
Integrity may be seen as the quality of having a sense of honesty and truthfulness in regard to the motivations for one's actions. The term "hypocrisy" is used in contrast to integrity for asserting that one part of a value system demonstrably conflicts with another, and to demand that the parties holding apparently conflicting values account for the discrepancy or change their beliefs to improve internal consistency.
Final thought: How hungry are you?
| Reply by davidK/CA on 4/28/09 8:48pm
Msg #286614
Run don't walk to the nearest exit. n/m
| Reply by sue_pa on 4/28/09 8:49pm
Msg #286615
...If I send it back, I obviously have to cross out my borrower's name from this notary's acknowledgment and do a loose acknowledgment. The other notary would then need to initial and date it when he gets it....
Obviously you don't have to do that at all. Why in the world would you? Do what you were hired to do ... have your guy sign and notarize. someone down the line will either accept the other 'errors' or they won't. If this is a good client, I'd alert them ahead of time. As for the backdating, be sure they are agreeable for you to get the docs signed tomorrow with you notarizing correctly. Many times they'll reassign the order rather than have you 'mess it up' for them.
All in all, sounds like a redraw if someone is concerned with doing things the proper way ... not always the case as we all know.
| Reply by Jim/AL on 4/28/09 8:55pm
Msg #286619
Agree with Sue 110%, do your job, not fix others. n/m
| Reply by Elizabeth Soliday on 4/28/09 9:09pm
Msg #286625
Re: Agree with Sue 110%, do your job, not fix others.
Seriously? You would have your borrower sign when there is an acknowledgment in the package stating he appeared before someone else to sign that document? The whole thing is too jacked up, I would like to help them - honestly - but I think they're going to have to redraw.
| Reply by Teresa/FL on 4/28/09 9:21pm
Msg #286629
Re: Agree with Sue 110%, do your job, not fix others.
It is not your job to determine if a redraw is necessary.
Notify the TC of the error you discovered and ask how they want to handle it. Under no circumstances should you make any corrections to another notary's certificates.
Do your job properly and let the TC worry about the other issues.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 4/28/09 9:37pm
Msg #286630
Don't touch another notary's cert...
Even if it is clearly wrong or messed up... never, ever touch the certificate of another notary.
Just notarize for the guy you were hired to verify and leave it at that.
Or, as some of the others said... run. Or photocopy the document and forward it to the CA secretary of state to report the CA notary who messed up. But, never...EVER...cross out another notary's work.
By the way... the CA notary's ack does not have to coincide with the date that the parties all signed. He is just saying that they all appeared before him and acknowledged signing the document. It's okay if they signed it before appearing. The date the notary puts down is just the date of the appearance and ack, not the signing itself. But from how you describe it, it sounds as if it may not be on the up and up.
Go with your gut. You have that right.
If it were me, I'd copy the work of the CA notaries and send it, along with a letter, to the SoS detailing your concerns about the situation. The SoS DOES want to know about this kind of thing, and they DO follow-up with it. It's just that a lot of people never report it.
| Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/29/09 7:31am
Msg #286652
Why not just have him sign the second page 10 - the one with only one name - and notarize that?
Since the other notary already completed the first acknowledgment, my guess is that if you have him sign THERE they'll just toss your loose acknowledgment when they get the package back...
I would call them and ask how they wanted it handled. If they insist they want his signature on the already acknowledged form too, you have to decide whether you want to be a party to fraud.
| Reply by davidK/CA on 4/29/09 11:31am
Msg #286671
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... I'd stay far away as you can't fix this mess and shouldn't try. Or if you insist on becoming involved, ask your E&O carrier if you are covered. You may be surprised that you may be at risk.
| Reply by CaliNotary on 4/29/09 12:50pm
Msg #286681
"Or if you insist on becoming involved, ask your E&O carrier if you are covered. You may be surprised that you may be at risk"
She's not at risk at all. We notarize signatures, not documents. If the guy is there and she notarizes his signature, she's done her job as a notary properly and has zero liability in any problems that may occur down the road. The other notary might have problems, the lender might have problems, the title company might have problems, but she will have no problems.
| Reply by MW/VA on 4/29/09 11:58am
Msg #286672
You always have the option to call a company & say "No can do". Split packages can be a mess, but only if the notaries involved don't know what they're doing. Some don't understand that they need to correct the notarial cert. to reflect only the peoples name who appeared before them. If they don't, they shouldn't be accepting the assignment in the first place, or should be calling the tc for exact instructions. There is no reason for the notary function to be messing up the transaction.
I still interpret that doing anything with another notary's work is UPL. IMO, we do our part correctly & maybe attach a note about the notarial conflict, but nothing more.
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