Posted by Jim/AL on 4/16/09 12:41pm
Msg #285323

NORTC question, opinions/answers requested.

Had a closing yesterday for a TC I have done work for over past 5-6 years. Got to the NORTC and transaction date was correct 04-15-2009, but the expiration said 04-20-2009.
I called TC and could not speak to owner who was in a closing, so I had to rely on a scheduler for the answer. She stated "we no longer count Saturday's so that date is correct."
Question is: what if the borrower did not agree and wanted her funds one day sooner and/or is this legal for them to change what I thought was a Federal law? I know that less than 3 business days would not fly, but more than 3 had me wondering.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 4/16/09 12:44pm
Msg #285325

The scheduler is correct.
These days many of the tcs I work with don't work on Saturdays.
Mon-Fri are considered banking-business days.

Reply by PAW on 4/16/09 12:47pm
Msg #285328

Lender and TC prerogative

The federal statute dictates the **minimum** requirement for the rescission period. Each and every lender and, to a certain extent, each title company can set an extended period if they so desire. Thus, if the lender doesn't want to count Saturday as a "business day", then that's their prerogative. If that's the case, then the expiry would be Monday, the 20th.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/16/09 12:48pm
Msg #285329

One particular company has an extra 7 days RTC.
There are several companies that do not count Saturday as a business day. Perfectly legal.

Reply by Jim/AL on 4/16/09 1:12pm
Msg #285340

Thanks all for your wisdom and responses. n/m

Reply by BobbiCT on 4/16/09 1:07pm
Msg #285339

What's a "business day" ...

In my years, it is only recently that lenders (fka Banks) began to count Saturday as a "business day." It used to be a Bank could count a "business day" as a "day it was open for routine business; i.e., the Banks did not count Saturdays because the main office and backroom services were closed; only branches were open for banking services. A lender can always extend the RTC date or go back to the "old days" and not count Saturday (particularly if there's been an issue of, "Did the lender receive the RTC before midnight on Saturday if the lender's main office was closed?" Did the borrowers have 3 full days to cancel or get their concerns addressed, when they could not reach anyone in the mortgage department because, although the branches were open, the "mortgage staff" weren't working Saturday?)

Off Topic: This year the Conn. Dept. of Banking amended regulations that allow "financial institutions" to be open on state holidays (Memorial Day, Independence Day [July 3 this year], Labor Day, Christmas, etc.). My guess is this was done to accomodate WalMart and People's Bank (grocery store branches).

Reply by PAW on 4/16/09 1:26pm
Msg #285344

Re: What's a "business day" ...

A "business day" is defined in the US CODE, Part 226.2 as:

[quote]

(6) "Business day" means a day on which the creditor's offices are open to the public for carrying on substantially all of its business functions. However, for purposes of rescission under §§ 226.15 and 226.23, and for purposes of § 226.19(a)(1)(ii) and § 226.31, the term means all calendar days except Sundays and the legal public holidays specified in 5 U.S.C. 6103(a), such as New Year's Day, the birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr., Washington's Birthday, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving Day, and Christmas Day.

[/quote]

Reply by Dave_CA on 4/17/09 8:59am
Msg #285451

Re: What's a "business day" ...

(particularly if there's been an issue of, "Did the lender receive the RTC before midnight on Saturday if the lender's main office was closed?"
I don't believe receipt is the requirement rather that it be sent.

Reply by PAW on 4/17/09 10:22am
Msg #285464

Correct, Dave.

IF the notification (in writing, per Reg Z) is postmarked prior to midnight of the third business day, then the borrower is covered. I always recommend getting a receipt from the post office. Same with faxing... it must be faxed prior to midnight of day-3.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/16/09 1:17pm
Msg #285341

PAW , and others are correct, the the 3 biz days is the...

minimum, not the maximum.
I am aware that there are exceptions as to what constitues of
Federal Holiday, especially when weekends are involved, but I believe
that the original intent was to make a "business day" a day when
the Post Office. was open, enabling the bwr to mail a notice of cancellation
and have it post marked prior to the expiration of the RTC period.

Reply by ChristineHI on 4/16/09 2:31pm
Msg #285367

Re: PAW , and others are correct, the the 3 biz days is the.

I agree with Bob. I was always told that a business day is a day that the post office delivers mail. That has worked very well for me. I guess giving the borrower more days is ok, but less is not, of course. I have never had that come up. Thanks for posting. Very interesting. :-)

Reply by PAW on 4/16/09 7:35pm
Msg #285415

Re: PAW , and others are correct, the the 3 biz days is the.

Using the Post Office as a guide will fail you about 3 or 4 times a year. When a federal holiday falls on a weekend, either the preceding Friday or the following Monday is when the holiday is "observed" and the banks and post offices as well as government offices will be closed. However, for rescission purposes, only the actual day of the holiday is a non-rescission day and Sundays.

For example, if July 4th is on Saturday (which it is this year), it will be observed on Friday, July 3rd. For rescission purposes, the 3rd IS a day of rescission. The 4th (Saturday) is not.

Next year, the 4th of July falls on a Sunday. It will be observed on Monday, July 5th. Again, only the actual date of the holiday (in this case, July 4th) is not considered a day of rescission. (And, since it is a Sunday, it wouldn't be counted anyway.) Monday, July 5, 2010 IS a day of rescission even though Independence Day will be observed on that day.

Of course, lenders have the prerogative to extend the 3-day rescission period for as long as they desire.

Reply by John/CT on 4/16/09 7:40pm
Msg #285416

And now, USPO considering limiting mail delivery to 5 days. n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/16/09 7:47pm
Msg #285418

Re: PAW , and others are correct, ...Paul

"For example, if July 4th is on Saturday (which it is this year), it will be observed on Friday, July 3rd. For rescission purposes, the 3rd IS a day of rescission. The 4th (Saturday) is not."

Is this referring to the Post Office? - if so, that's incorrect providing they're still at a 6 day schedule. Saturday is a work day for them so the holiday is observed on Saturday. The only way it works in your example is if the carrier is scheduled to be off on the Saturday, in which case (s)he'd technically lose the holiday...so they give him/her Friday as his/her holiday - and possible overtime on Saturday at double time.

Respectfully submitted,
Wife of USPS retiree...

Reply by PAW on 4/17/09 7:47am
Msg #285444

Re: PAW , and others are correct, ...Paul

Well, sort of. Granted the Post Office is open and working on Saturday (at least for the time being), but the Sunday holiday, Monday observance certainly does affect mail delivery.

Another "holiday" issue are state observed holidays, such as V-J Day in Rhode Island and Patriots' Day in Massachusetts.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/16/09 11:36pm
Msg #285437

" I believe thr original intent" SHOCKING that Federal

regulations got so complicated so as to make it more difficult
to determine with certainty the required date of RTC and to
make it diffuicult for a bwr to cancel by having the final RTC day on a day
when bwr can't mail in a notice to cancel.

Reply by BobbiCT on 4/17/09 7:11am
Msg #285441

I believe thr original intent" ...

In addition, if you are an Old state like CT with state-chartered brick-and-mortor banks that don't sell their loans on the secondary market, CT Dept. of Banking regulations apply to a "state-chartered banks" vs. a Bank of America, which is a federal chartered bank vs. "national lenders" which aren't banks at all. That's what makes the whole CT banks allowed to be open on state holidays thing (which coincidentally include federal holidays) interesting.

Sometimes the small-time, in-state Banks will negotiate a better deal, too. They're dealing with face-to-face local customers : checking, savings, CDs, car loan, mortgage, student loan, etc. all in one place to adult grandchildren of existing banking customers. Talk about a long-term relationship.

Reply by jba/fl on 4/17/09 1:11pm
Msg #285496

Re: " I believe thr original intent" SHOCKING that Federal

"diffuicult for a bwr to cancel by having the final RTC day on a day
when bwr can't mail in a notice to cancel. "

which day would that be?

Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/17/09 8:22pm
Msg #285548

Re: " I believe thr original intent" SHOCKING that Federal

"make it diffuicult for a bwr to cancel by having the final RTC day on a day
when bwr can't mail in a notice to cancel. "

Am I missing something here? I'm not sure I'm getting the point you're trying to make.

The only day the BO can't mail is Sunday - and that's excluded as a non-business day anyway. Even if USPS follows through on the threat to stop DELIVERING mail 6 days a week, they will still be collecting mail on the regular schedule and postmarking it... and as long as it's postmarked within the RTC window, the BO is covered.

The BO also has the option to fax the RTC; if they can't get to the post office before final pickup on Saturday, there's always Kinko's...