Posted by loma on 4/19/09 9:00am
Msg #285632

Ride alongs~ I am Conflicted~ Please help!

On Friday, I was asked by local newbie if she could ride along and learn. ( She didn't say she wanted me to teach her), but I know what this is going to turn into. Free lessons so she can compete with me.

My volume is down 35% over the last year and I don't need any more competitors.

Do I have an obligation to pass on the craft of signing to her?

I know she can use the money.

What to do????????

Reply by Stamper_WI on 4/19/09 9:13am
Msg #285633

The question is is whether the borrower, lender and TC would agree to it.
I'm sure you can use the money too.

Reply by A-1 Signing Agents, LLC on 4/19/09 9:30am
Msg #285634

A big no!

Learn as you go just like probably all of us did. How embarrassing would that be if she were to pose a question during the closing? I'd maybe do mock closing at her place but charge her. That would be about as good as it gets. JMHO

As I learned, no one wants to train the competition either.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/19/09 10:18am
Msg #285636

Just tell her that the company that hired you won't allow ride a longs. - Protecting the borrowers confidentiality.

You have no obligation to "pass on the craft of signing" to her or anyone else.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/19/09 12:45pm
Msg #285639

Great advice, Sylvia. Some of us have learned the hard way not to help others that will end up being our competitors.

Reply by Yowheelz on 4/19/09 2:02pm
Msg #285640

Throw in "must have a BGC", that should end it for now. n/m

Reply by Deborah Lewellen on 4/20/09 2:13pm
Msg #285690

Are you kidding? Why don't you just show her your accounts..

Absolutely NOT, I don't mean to sound like I'm yelling, cause I'm not, but she is wanting you to teach her the ropes. about 4-5 yrs. ago, when I used to have docs overnighted to me regularly the Fed Ex guy new I was getting documents and said, oh, his wife did this over in another nearby town, that I did it in as well. I believe he pilfered info off my docs (addresses and phone numbers) and gave it to his wife so she could get more work. Fortunately she went back to her teaching job, she got sick and tired of the waiting for docs and the BS.
However this very same Fed Ex guy was deliverying pkgs. around town and just so happened to mention to some "notary" who worked at a funeral home about what we do, explaining about his wife, etc. (I never knew anything about it) Next thing I know, she shows up at my office door telling me, she wants me to teach her how to make all kinds of money as a notary.
She said Duane the fed ex driver told her about me and to come by here, that I wouldn't mind at all. (mind you, I never explain any of my business to anyone and if I even do mention it, it's very brief)
I was floored and really ticked off. I told her, I didn't know what she was talking about and that I couldn't help her. She said, well Duane told her I would, repeat again.

Talk about RUDE.
I had another business at the time, been in business for 15yrs. people all the time would come up to us and say, oh, pretty easy business, I'll bet your making money hand over fist, that's so easy, blah, blah, blah.
With our other enterprises, I've had people literally say "well you're rollin in the dough",
There is nothing gained unless it's by hard work. My husband and I didn't have some windfall for any of it, It's been purely by blood, sweat and tears.
If you are willing to give away ANY secrets to your success, then you are a self-defeating business owner, that won't make it. that's like telling KFC to let their secret recipe out.

Reply by Notary/ME on 4/21/09 1:59pm
Msg #285810

I had a friend who is a Real Estate Broker whom asked me the same thing. Since sales were down, she was going to "do signings" and wanted me to teach her. I suggested that right AFTER she teach me how to be a successful broker in the same town she is in, then I would teach her how to do Signings in my town. She had a weird face...but I think she got it. By the way? She doesn't invite me to her christmas party anymore!!!

Reply by BobbiCT on 4/19/09 2:06pm
Msg #285643

This is not a craft. It is a business.

Did McDonald's train Burger King's and Wendy's staff when they opened a restaurant next door? Do you think when CitiBank wanted to open a branch down the street, it called the local Bank of America branch manager and asked if it's staff could spend the day in BoA's branch "training"?

There are any number of companies and individuals who will train signing agents. I recommend she go to those people. They are earning their living as instructors and many of them are experienced and very good "teachers."

I would NEVER even attempt to get approvals from the 1) title insurance company, 2) borrowers, 3) lender, 4) escrow agent (if applicable), and 5) scheduling service to use the borrower's Loan Closing as a "training venue" for someone else. One: I doubt if I could get all their approvals. And, if I were the borrower, I would NOT want MY VALUABLE TIME used to "train" someone - particularly when I've already paid a good sum of money for a "fast, convenient" closing in my home. If any lender asked me for this, I would ask for a "reduction in my closing fees because you are using me, my home and my loan as a training venue. As it is, the borrowers I deal with most of the time are "uncomfortable" that the witness even has to know they are "witnessing their neighbors' sign a mortgage deed."

Reply by Gary_CA on 4/19/09 3:34pm
Msg #285647

First rule of poker

Never educate the fish.

Period, end of story.

Just level with her and be done with it...

"My volume is down 35% over the last year and I don't need any more competitors."

That's dog-doo simple. You can soften it with "I wish you the best and I know you'll be a friendly competitor, but I'm just not going to spend time helping you get started."

Do I have an obligation to pass the craft??? Where'd you get that idea? Heck no.

Reply by Julie/MI on 4/19/09 4:54pm
Msg #285649

This is not Amway or Mary Kay

I lost a two friends and still receive the cold shoulder from my husband's uncle I said no to about getting them into the business.

Many are under the impression, that being an independent business owner is like a multi level marketing deal, and some think they are doing us a favor by requesting tips to getting into the business.

Just say no.

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 4/19/09 6:21pm
Msg #285652

Have them check out the local notary classes ....

I see "loan signing classes" are advertised in New York. Have her go there and pay for the instruction as so many across the country do. Many of these schools go though the documents, hold mock signings and allow ride-alongs.

When someone has asked me about learning the documents or going along for a ride along, I just tell them I am not an instructor, and then I refer them to a person who runs a loan signing class. Of course, they will have to pay for it, probably something your local newbie doesn't want to do .....

Reply by Todd/OH on 4/19/09 7:52pm
Msg #285654

Nobody held my hand - -

when I first started on my own and I wouldn't advise anyone else doing so. As much as I thought I knew this business, I screwed up good here and there. When you fall, you get up and move on to the next signing - or you move away.

Reply by notaryinmo on 4/19/09 9:13pm
Msg #285656

Re: Nobody held my hand - -

I wish I had thought about this when I assisted my "friend" with a closing in the office. She was a brand new notary, it was her first signing and it's a good thing I was there because she just handed over the entire package to the client to have him sign without telling him anything except to find where to sign the different pages. That's when I stepped in and helped out because it wasn't fair to the client. Then, near the end - my "friend" told him quite loudly that he'd have to pay a penalty for pre-paying the loan. I admonished her after the client left because it could have caused the entire loan to be cancelled. She didn't even tell him about the 3 day RTC, until I stepped in. She got paid for the closing and didn't offer me any of it. Now she's trying to tell me that Missouri has lawsuits against notaries and she doesn't even want me to do any signings in the office. I'm really thinking it's because she knows I'm making money and she isn't. Maybe it's because I've read and researched in this forum and know what I'm doing based upon more experienced notaries than myself.

Next time I know of any "newbie" notary, they can teach themselves like I did. That way, I won't have to worry about jealousy!

Reply by Ti/Ga on 4/19/09 9:19pm
Msg #285657

Re: she asked a question--JUST SAY NO! its all business and

keep it that way. You have an obligation to yourself and the company that hired YOU.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/19/09 11:13pm
Msg #285663

First of all , as others have said, there's no obligation on your part to "pass on the craft".. there is no "craft" to pass on...

I'm not sure where in NY you are - I'm on Long Island and it's fairly competitive here, but it's all refi, mods, or RMs, and it's often offered at lowball prices. Notaries generally don't do purchases in this part of the state unless they've also been trained as title closers (or the property is out of state). That's a completely different skill set, and it's not something you'll learn from the NNA or The Signing Registry Training Manual...

Most of the responses here have basically been that you should never train your competition. In a perfect world, that would be true - but in this part of the world, the reality is that someone else will do it if you don't. Just about every school district here that offers an Adult Ed program has a course that will teach you how to be a notary signing agent - 2 hours, and you're good to go.

Personally (given the way things are working here), if someone approached me with this request I would politely decline the ride along because of the privacy issues. I would instead offer to spend time showing them how handle the different types of packages they could expect to see here, for a fee. They can pay me or pay the Adult Ed instructor; I can guarantee you that the Adult Ed instructor is not going to explain an RM, or a CEMA, or the NYS forms that are required when you do a Quit Claim Deed, etc.... I can teach them all of that, but it's going to cost them.

Jeez, I could probably package all this and teach my own Adult Ed course....

I would not provide them with leads for business, other than to point them to Notary Rotary as a place to start - they can't eat your lunch if you don't show them where it is...

Just my take on it - what could work here wouldn't necessarily work elsewhere.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/20/09 2:30am
Msg #285666

Please do us all a favor...

...and when you point them here to NotRot, advise them to read up first, do their own homework, use the seach button and don't come expecting to get all the answers to whatever questions they might have just handed to them on a silver platter! Feel free to warn them, though, that if they do, some folks here will eat their lunch!! ;>

Reply by jba/fl on 4/20/09 3:07am
Msg #285667

Ah;, Janet - excellent points! n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/20/09 4:30pm
Msg #285719

Re: Please do us all a favor...

Hadn't thought about that, Janet - you're right!

Reply by ChristineHI on 4/20/09 3:11pm
Msg #285708

Well, I would definately not do a "ride along". The confidentiality of the transaction to me is too important. I just do not think that it is appropriate.
That being said, I have a notary here that I brought into the business a couple of years ago. She does it part time, not full time like me. I did not train her in any way, but I refer business to her when I cannot do a signing. She also does the same for me.
She will ask me questions occasionally, but has never asked me to "train" her. She has done that work herself and I have been amazed at how far she has come.
I do believe in being a mentor of sorts and have been to other notaries as well. Even a couple of them that are my competition. I am realistic and know I cannot do every single signing that comes my way, so for me, having another notary that refers business to me and to whom I refer business has worked out well. The signing companies like that I refer another trusted notary to them as well. I am careful though, to make sure that it is signing companies that will call me first. I want that first call and then if I cannot do it then I refer it to her. If I don't feel that the signing company does that, I will not refer the signing.
This notary is very respectful to me as well. She is a friend and knows that I do this full time. She does not market herself to companies that are my main source of income either.
You have no obligation to help anyone. You must have a great deal of trust in the other notary to know she won't step on your toes and if you don't feel you have that than politely say no.
Also, when I refer someone to her I must know that she will represent me well. I am trusting that she will do a good job because the other company might remember that I referred her to them.
I think that it is up to the other notary to get the training they need independently. I am there for her if she has questions, but I am not going to "train" her. I am basically a mentor and also a referral source and it goes both ways so it makes us both money.
Anyway, the ride along is a bad idea though.
Good luck and do be careful. It is true that this person could become your competition so you must keep that in mind. :-)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/20/09 3:53pm
Msg #285715

I soooo agree!!

"You must have a great deal of trust in the other notary to know she won't step on your toes and if you don't feel you have that than politely say no.
Also, when I refer someone to her I must know that she will represent me well. I am trusting that she will do a good job because the other company might remember that I referred her to them. "

Absolutely agree -- and you are fortunate to have found someone like her who you can trust and with the right attitude. It sounds like it's a mutually beneficial relationship, which I feel is as it should be. It's my gut feeling -- and my personal experience -- that anyone who would have the chutzpah to ask for a ride-a-long, isn't going to be respectful of me or my business.

In the corporate world, when a successful person chooses to mentor someone, it's usually because they see not only potential in that person, but also an appreciation of, and respect for, what they have to offer.

Once again, it's all about attitude...

Reply by ChristineHI on 4/20/09 9:23pm
Msg #285751

Re: I soooo agree!!

Well said, Janet. Yes, I have known this person for many years and know her character. She has represented me very well so far, in fact, I think that it has helped my business since many companies thank me for the referral and I get referrals from her as well.
I am very happy that I have this in my business.

Reply by Jim/AL on 4/20/09 9:59pm
Msg #285757

Did it and regret it.

I did mentor someone, took them to closings (with bwr permission) gave them much more than the basic training. She worked opposite my FT schedule at the time so it was supposed to be she would cover what I could not and vice versa.
Got burned big time...she NEVER reffered me and even got her husband into it also, they scooped up a ton of my business and never so much as thanked me.
Learned from my mistake, never, never, never again.