Posted by DI/CA on 8/27/09 11:34am
Msg #301939

Copy of a passport

Hello evebody.

can I notarized a copy of a passport?

Thank you

Reply by Linda Spanski on 8/27/09 11:36am
Msg #301940

Better read your state handbook

... and work on your spelling and grammar

Reply by RickG/CA on 8/27/09 11:37am
Msg #301941

Not in Calif, check the handbook

http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary-handbook-2009.pdf

Reply by Stoli on 8/27/09 11:44am
Msg #301942

Why do you believe a passport cannot be notarized?

I laughed when I saw this question, but then I did a word search from the handbook link that was posted, and I didn't find a reason not to notarize.... other than my gut says we shouldn't--and which certificate should be attached.... I know we can't "certify".....

Reply by Linda Spanski on 8/27/09 11:48am
Msg #301944

we notarize signatures, not documents n/m

Reply by Stoli on 8/27/09 11:50am
Msg #301947

Yes, that is always implied if not stated.. I indicated that

We obviously notarize signatures not documents, but if the person presented a certificate with the passport, why wouldn't we notarize their signature on the certificate?

Reply by LynnNC on 8/27/09 12:20pm
Msg #301954

Re: Yes, that is always implied if not stated.. I indicated that

You can notarize a sworn statement that has been signed by the person.

Reply by davidK/CA on 8/27/09 12:39pm
Msg #301957

California Notary 101

As California Notaries Public we can not "authenticate" a government issued document such as a passport, driver license or birth certificate. Only the government agency that issued the document can do so.

What a Notary can do is complete an Acknowledgement or a Jurat for a document provided by the signator that states that the attached PHOTOCOPY of the document in question (not the original document) is a genuine copy. The signator can state that the PHOTOCOPY is genuine, however under no circumstances can they state that the ORIGINAL document is genuine.

That means the document holder is saying a certain specific COPY of the document is a real copy. The Notary is merely doing a normal Notarial Act of the signator's signature.

Reply by DI/CA on 8/27/09 12:47pm
Msg #301958

Re: California notary 101

Thank you all for all your answers... Please forgive me for the misspelling in the previous message.

Reply by LynnNC on 8/27/09 2:40pm
Msg #301983

Re: California notary 101

"What a Notary can do is complete an Acknowledgement or a Jurat for a document provided by the signator that states that the attached PHOTOCOPY of the document in question (not the original document) is a genuine copy. The signator can state that the PHOTOCOPY is genuine, however under no circumstances can they state that the ORIGINAL document is genuine."

I don't think that it is our concern what the documents says. We can notarize an Acknowledgemnt that the person appeared before us and signed the document, or a Jurat that the person swears that the photocopy is of the genuine passport. We are notarizing the act, not what is contained in the document.

Reply by RickG/CA on 8/27/09 11:49am
Msg #301946

Re: yeah ditto n/m

Reply by LynnNC on 8/27/09 11:48am
Msg #301945

What act would you be notarizing? Would you be acknowledging that the person appeared and signed before you or his or her sworn statement? Neither would be the case.

Reply by Stoli on 8/27/09 11:51am
Msg #301948

The act would be witnessing their appearance before you. no? n/m

Reply by Stoli on 8/27/09 11:52am
Msg #301949

I shouldn't say that--- we never suggest the correct cert... n/m

Reply by Linda Spanski on 8/27/09 11:53am
Msg #301950

wrong question

If the poster had asked "can I notarize a sworn statement that this is a true copy of a passport?" then the answer would be yes, you can notarize pretty much any statement a signer wants to make but you cannot notarize a copy of a passport or anything else.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 8/27/09 12:24pm
Msg #301955

Agree. Some states MAY have a specific prohibition. n/m

Reply by John/CT on 8/27/09 12:58pm
Msg #301961

e.g., Connecticut and "public records". n/m

Reply by John/CT on 8/27/09 2:31pm
Msg #301980

Actually, I was only clarifying what Bob said ...

in his reply to Linda, above. No need, Lisa, to SHOUT you disagreed.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/27/09 3:09pm
Msg #301987

Re: Actually, I was only clarifying what Bob said ...

I like to shout every now and then....it's not a mean shout, it's a nice shout.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/27/09 1:10pm
Msg #301966

DISAGREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A passport is NOT a vital record...it is for IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES......

Use Copy Certification by Document Custodian form....the signer will be certifying that the copy of the passport is a true and correct copy, then you notarize his/her signature per the jurat printed at the bottome of the CCDC form.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/27/09 1:27pm
Msg #301969

Re: DISAGREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I always love these certified copy discussions . . . from any state.

Popcorn anyone? I’m headed to the snackbar.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/27/09 2:11pm
Msg #301976

[Wouldn't want you to be disappointed, Brenda... ;>)]

True, but that's not what the original poster asked. Also, since I'm not an attorney or paralegal, I wouldn't be comfortable providing that document to someone to be notarized. Feels too much like UPL to me. I would describe to them what I COULD do if they prepared something like that on their own, which I have done in the past.

For you out-of-state folks who have your popcorn and Coke, here's the text:

"Acts Constituting the Practice of Law
California notaries public are prohibited from performing any duties that may be construed
as the practice of law. Among the acts which constitute the practice of law are the preparation,
drafting, or selection or determination of the kind of any legal document, or giving advice in
relation to any legal documents or matters. If asked to perform such tasks, a California notary
public should decline and refer the requester to an attorney."

Seems to me that providing the Copy Certification Form here in CA could be seen as "selection or determination of the kind of any legal document" since that is what we would be notarizing, not the copy of the Passport. I know some disagree with me on this, but that's my opinion.

Reply by davidK/CA on 8/27/09 2:43pm
Msg #301984

Providing a Copy Certification is UPL in California.

Even though it is very convenient to have such a form available, if you give out the blank form to the signor to fill out you are practicing law in CA, a very expensive No-No.

Reply by Therese on 8/27/09 3:45pm
Msg #301997

It's not UPL if....... n/m

Reply by Therese on 8/27/09 3:49pm
Msg #301998

Re: continued

if you let a potential client know the different services you offer then let them choose which one they would like you to use.
The following could be used if this purpose but its not up to us to choose but up to the client requesting the services;


California Affidavit of Document Custodian

I, _________________________________________________________, do solemnly swear under the penalty of perjury pursuant to the laws of the United States of America that the attached copy of ___________________ is a true, unaltered and accurate copy of the original document in my possession.



_______________________

Signature of Document Custodian

____________________________________________________________________________

State of California

County of ______________________}ss.



Subscribed and sworn to (or affirmed) before me this _______ day of _________________, 2008 by ______________________________________, proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) who appeared before me.



____________________________________
Notary Signature (Stamp)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/28/09 1:12am
Msg #302061

Hmmmm. Interesting point - but pretty subtle distinction. n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/27/09 6:59pm
Msg #302025

The discussion of this topic is ALWAYS lively.

No matter what state. I learn a little something each time it is discussed.

Munch, munch, munch...more butter please.

Reply by Therese on 8/27/09 8:09pm
Msg #302040

Did you pick me up a soda! n/m

Reply by John_NorCal on 8/27/09 10:42pm
Msg #302054

Easy on the butter Brenda, it's bad for the arteries! n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/27/09 3:05pm
Msg #301986

Well, let me say it this way

Sorry Brenda, no circus today (at least not with me)....

Original poster asked if he can notarize a copy of a passport...since we notarize signatures to statements, then the customer needs to write a statement saying the photocopy is of his passport. Customer needs to sign it and Notary will notarize customer's signature to the statement. Ask the customer whether he'd like an acknowledgment or jurat.
A passport is NOT a vital record, therefore, those folks that took this in the direction of "no, it cannot be done because a passport is gov't issue or a vital record" is what I disagreed with. Hope there's clarity now.

Reply by davidK/CA on 8/27/09 3:21pm
Msg #301988

Re: Well, let me say it this way

CA Notary Handbook, Page 16:

Certified Copies

A notary public may only certify copies of powers of attorney under Probate Code section
4307 and his or her notary public journal. (Government Code sections 8205(a)(4), 8205(b)(1),
and 8206(e))

Certified copies of birth, fetal death, death, and marriage records may be made only by the
State Registrar, by duly appointed and acting local registrars during their term of office, and
by county recorders. (Health & Safety Code section 103545)

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/27/09 3:29pm
Msg #301992

Re: Well, let me say it this way

Disclaimer: Capitalization for emphasis only not meant as shouting.

I CLEARLY, CLEARLY, CLEARLY said in both posts that the CUSTOMER is the one certifying that something is a true copy of the orginal, the CUSTOMER is certifying....Notary notarizes customer's signature to CUSTOMER'S STATEMENT.....Notary isn't certifying anything, the CUSTOMER IS. *****Customer can certify anything he/she wants, other than obvious lies like they certify that they own Jupiter*****.

When someone wants the copy of their driver's license or passport to have their signature notarized to, it's to a STATEMENT that says the DL or passport is true and exact copy of the original. That has been my experience but if the original poster meant something different, he/she needs to clarify. Otherwise, that is what I understood the original post to mean.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/27/09 3:40pm
Msg #301995

To add....

U.S. Passport Agency issues passports, not the State Registrar - passport is not a vital record
Driver's licenses issue (in CA) by the Department of Motor Vehicles, not the State Registrar - driver's license is not a vital record

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/28/09 1:09am
Msg #302060

Re: Well, let me say it this way

Here's how I think we got off-track on this one:

DI/CA (the original poster) said "can I notarized [sic] a copy of a passport?"

RickG/CA replied "not in CA" and referred him to the reference page in the SOS handbook. You disagreed with Rick, then went on to defend doing something that isn't quite the same as what DI/CA asked. Technically, what you are describing is not the same as notarizing a copy of a passport, rather the workaround that a CA notary could use to handle a request as stated in her question. Whether a vital record or not, I don't think you'd dispute that we shouldn't be directly notarizing a photocopy of a passport - or of much else, for that matter.

We have enough newbies still reading this board that I feel it's important to clarify these sometimes subtle distinctions.

Reply by Stoli on 8/27/09 3:52pm
Msg #301999

Just beyond the pail--You've lost the original question. n/m