Posted by jojo_MN on 8/15/09 1:10am
Msg #300116

Here we go again.

Sounds like every closing I did this week. All at least 150+ pages, only one did not require the faxbacks. Too Unreal. Also, three out of the last five closings are ARM's !!!!! OMG, didn't ANYONE learn from what is/was a major reason so many people are having their mortgages forclused upon?????? Also one with a 3% prepayment penalty.(Not legal in Minnesota) on top of the 5 year arm.. When is there a time that we can just stand up in front of them and scream "DON'T DO IT!!" Then, just to top it off, the ss wants 30-40 pages faxed back so we can wait for approval before shipping back.

I absolutley love my business. We meet great people and are doing them an excellent service in going over the docs with them and letting them know what they are signing. Most of them truly are in a better financial situation because of our services.

BUT THEN, , , , , ,

When will we be able to say "No! Don't Do it. It's a bad loan for you".LO insures them that the prime rate wont go up t 8% so there is no way that will have the 10.43% interest rate in the sixth year because it will never go that high. I know we can't; however, sometimes, it is so hard not to.

Okay. After the docs are signed, the SS are requiring that we fax bck 33-44 pages that we need to search thru the 150+ pages for the correct ones to fax. Oh. Don't forget to wait for approval to ship becaue if you skip any of the steps you WILL be fined $20-to half, if not all, of your agreed free.

Reply by John/CT on 8/15/09 8:52am
Msg #300121

OUCH!!! n/m

Reply by CF on 8/15/09 8:59am
Msg #300124

Well, last week myself and a borrower took a stand. The borrower was not given an advanced copy of the HUD and there was over $12K in settlement fees. I did not have time to look over it- as they sent me the docs 45 minutes before the closing. I printed and flew out the door. Get to the borrowers house and start looking over everything and we see these "inflated" closing costs. Basically every line of the HUD was filled with a charge from and $750 processing fee to a $450 document storage fee to over $1100.00 in title insurace. It appeared that the FHA fee was inflated too.

The borrower got on the phone with her LO and she said NO WAY....I am not signing any of this. The LO was going over his "song and pony show" about this fee is standard and this fee is standard. He asks that I get on the phone....and he is pleading for me to get it signed. I spoke up and said NO!!!! I have no intentions of selling your loan at the table to this person. I had a verbal altercation with the jack a$$! He ended up telling me to "shut your mouth...you are just an incompetent notary". Well...that was it for that conversation. The borrower told him where he go with some choice 4 letter words!!!!


After this he proceed to harass me via email for 3 days...until I told him I was going to seek legal action if I was contacted again.

The biggest kicker to all of this...the borrower was trying to have her current taxes paid with this refinance. She had not been escrowing and wanted it paid out through the settlement. Out of the $12K in closing costs the taxes WERE NOT GOING TO BE PAID. Of course, the LO did not have anything to say to that! Additionally, she thought she was saving about $100.00 per month...well that was not the case b/c she was going to be paying PMI for $87.00 per month...saving her only $13.00 per month....now how long would that take you to re-coup the $12K in closings costs? NEVER by saving $13.00 per month.

Now lets here it for the -you don’t know the whole story and you can not judge what is going on. That is BS....I am a human being that can read and do basic math. She was going to be ripped off....and this is what started the mess we are in to begin with.

To all those shady LO's borrowers are much more informed now....so watch out!!!!! I could care less about losing $125.00 (which I wont b/c I will file suit) to save a person from making a big mistake!!!!!! I just pointed out the obvious....which she already could see b/c she could read and do basic math!!!!!

The funny part about it was I told that I would not be able to close anymore loans for this company. I laughed at the bully on the other end of phone!!!!! It was comical.....I do not want to close their BS loans!!!!!!!! It is all starting over again.....no way to stop it. The government is on the side of business not consumers!!!!

I do not have time or the want to deal with companies like this. It is waste of time, energy, and resources!!!! Not to mention this title company gives me 3 order per year. I could care less!!!!

I love what I do...but I just can not stomach shady deals that put real people in my community in bad situation!!!!!

Reply by mwm143 on 8/15/09 9:35am
Msg #300125

When they required lots of fax backs

I will fax the whole package back rather than sift through it. I have the type of fax machine that will scan up to 100 pages at a time very quickly, store it in memory and then fax it all at once. It's actually a whole lot faster for me to do that than to search the package.

Reply by OR on 8/15/09 11:02am
Msg #300138

Re: When they required lots of fax backs

AIf you done mind me asking what kind of machine do you have that will scan 100 pages at a time. I just bought one that does 50 and havent gotten it yet. Thank you

Reply by mwm143 on 8/15/09 12:09pm
Msg #300147

Canon

Super G3. I've had it a couple of years and it's been a great machine. Fax/Phone/Scanner/Copier. Rebates at the time from Staples so I think the total cost was around $125.00.

Reply by John/CT on 8/15/09 2:24pm
Msg #300161

Lots of G3 Series

Which particular model did you have in mind?

Reply by John/CT on 8/15/09 2:25pm
Msg #300162

"Super G3", that is ... n/m

Reply by wisconsin on 8/16/09 11:34am
Msg #300220

Re: "Super G3", that is ...

I have a canon super g3 MF4370 as well. I love it, I just wish it had dual trays. I will fax back the whole package too instead of pulling 40 different pages out.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/15/09 10:25am
Msg #300130

Here I am to save the day.

I obviously labor under the wrong impression of what a notary is and what our role in the play is. I thought our role was to follow the notary laws of our state and act in the role of dis-interested party. In the last weeks I've seen and cannot believe that professional people have taken upon themselves the mantle of consumer protector and avenger of all that is perceived to be wrong.

I suggest if you want to save what we all assume are rational, over the age of 18 and have been around the block at least once people from harm. Join a consumer protection outfit or state agency that specializes in such business. Otherwise you caped avengers are going to start to cut into the rest of our businesses, by scaring off our employers who will make the rational leap of saying: "those notaries are trying to kill our business."

Once again there is an old saying in the Army that covers this well.

Keep your eyes in your own lane.

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/15/09 10:49am
Msg #300135

Well said, Philip. n/m

Reply by Shoshana Roller on 8/15/09 11:02am
Msg #300139

Re: Here I am to save the day.

I totally agree with you Philip! Last night I closed a loan that had a 3 point discount fee. I never said a word to the borrower about it. It's not my business.
Borrowers need to educate themselves about fees on the loan. As we all know, a lot of fees are standard: such as processing fees, underwriting fees, title insurance, etc. Then there are the non-standard fees such as application fees and loan discount fees. Hopefully, when we start seeing the results of the new RESPA rules, This will all change.

Reply by NCLisa on 8/15/09 1:43pm
Msg #300157

We are NOT JUST Notaries!

We hold ourselves out as Signing Agents, and only a small role is the actual notarial act.

If I were to close some of the loans that I'm asked to close, if the borrowers filed complaints with the appropriate authorities, I could be held accountable. If I know an illegal act is taking place, I am not to participate. You can lose your notary, for notarizing docs if you know fraud is taking place. Not only am I a notary, but I am a certified paralegal, and a former escrow officer. I've got enough experience to know when something is wrong and illegal in my state. The law would hold me to those higher standards. You may be a notary, but you specialize in closing loans, so you should be educated enough to know when something is very wrong. If you go ahead and close a loan that may be predatory and fraudulent, then you are just a liable as the loan officer, the lender, etc. Remember, in anything, ignorance of the law is no excuse, and none of us should be ignorant to what loan fraud and predatory lending is.

Reply by CF on 8/15/09 2:25pm
Msg #300163

NCLisa- I fully agree with you! n/m

Reply by parkerc/ME on 8/15/09 7:10pm
Msg #300182

Re: We are NOT JUST Notaries! Disagree.

You were a former escrow officer and paralegal, so you have intricate knowledge of the workings of the real estate/mortgage world. But I am happy that I do not have, nor want, that in-depth knowledge. . . and can honestly give my disclaimer at the beginning. The only thing that I would be held accountable for is if I proceed with a signing/notarization and know or highly suspect that their identity is in question. Don't give SA's more power than they should legally exercise.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 8/15/09 7:18pm
Msg #300184

PS Re: We are NOT JUST Notaries!

Oh, and you are confusing the terms signing agent with closing agent. We are not closing agents. Big difference as to liability.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/15/09 10:37pm
Msg #300197

In the example what spoke of fraud?

You can sniff out loan fraud by talking with a borrower? How do you know whether they make $2500/week or $25,000/week? Are you looking at their 1040's and or w-2's at the appointment? You state the borrowers if they filed a complaint with Hud, Fannie Mae, whomever, you would be complacent in perpetuating fraud? What makes you complacent?

You checked their ID, gave the oath where necessary and presented the papers as were drawn by a TC authorized to do business in NC. You did your part.

You also state "If you go ahead and close a loan that may be predatory and fraudulent, then you are just a liable as the loan officer, the lender, etc." May be? So are you going to go home after your appointment and snitch to the the authorities that this loan "MAYBE" predatory or fraudulent to protect you? What if you are wrong? At that point you are in bigger trouble than when you started.

Follow the notary laws of the state and keep your eyes in your own lane and leave saving the world to your favorite super hero and you'll be fine.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/15/09 11:08am
Msg #300140

"When will we be able to say "No! Don't do it. It's a bad loan for you."
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER! That is exactly why it is stressed that we are NOT to give the borrower legal or financial advice. If you are unable to live with that, it's time to look for another line of work.
I have also seen a lot of ARM's. Most are VA refi's. I'm guessing that's the way the LO can sell the lower interest rate/lower payment pitch.
Remember, a person should know full well what they're getting into. They also have the 3-day RTC
in which to change their minds.
I learned a hard lesson in life. We cannot protect people from themselves.
The loan mod scam is another matter. I do not participate in transactions that are not legal.

Reply by Lucy/IL on 8/15/09 2:55pm
Msg #300168

Re: Loan mods.

Are all loan modifications illegal though?

Reply by MW/VA on 8/15/09 3:07pm
Msg #300170

Re: Loan mods.

Loan mods that are coming from the lenders are legit. I stated "loan mod scams".

Reply by Lee/AR on 8/15/09 3:08pm
Msg #300172

Difference: Loan Mod. & Loan Mod. APPLICATION

A Loan Modification--even if it came thru 21st C Legal.... would be just fine. A 'modification' means they ARE changing 'something' that will benefit a borrower....most likely a lower interest rate.
A Loan Mod. Application is just that... an application (for a Modification). These applications don't need a single notarization or even a notary. Please learn the difference.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/15/09 3:59pm
Msg #300175

And a Loan Mod. APPLICATION wants you to pu $$$$

Many states are dead set against up front costs, esp. those in 4 figures.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/15/09 4:40pm
Msg #300176

Here's why we walk a fine line ...

3% PPP in MN is not illegal - clearly outlined in the Predatory Lending statutes, but you do have to read it all the way to the end. There's also the "Section 32" caps that dictate what is and what is not a "High Cost Loan". I point this out because I can SO empathize with you, Jojo - but I also know how things can APPEAR on the surface, how complicated it can be, and how much lies beneath the layers that we're ever privy to.

'Armed' with 1/2 a story, only a passing understanding of Predatory Lending laws and a genuine desire to be good, honest & kind ...we can still make a lot of mistakes and put ourselves at risk.

I know borrowers - in general - do not volunteer their dirty laundry to ANYONE they don't have to. They don't even volunteer it sometimes when they're SUPPOSED to, until it's otherwise discovered by their loan officer.

I don't LIKE saying "we can't judge" ... I'd LOVE to judge, but I know that it would be based on 1/2 a story, and 1/2 that story might not even be true.

So I do live that lesson Lisa noted: You can't save people from themselves.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/15/09 9:06pm
Msg #300189

Re: Here's why we walk a fine line ...

Excellent points, Renee. I think there's a big middle ground between stopping something that we KNOW on it's face is clearly fraud and stepping in without all the facts. In the case that started this thread, it seemed like the borrower was doing a fine job of standing up for themselves and didn't need help to tell them to not proceed.

I've also seen just a couple of ARMs recently. One was for a widow approaching retirement. She happened to mention that she owns another property that she hopes to sell to pay off her primary residence before the adjustable period begins in five years. The ARM allows her to continue to make payments on her home, now that she is dependent just on her own income, which would be difficult otherwise. Made sense to me - not that my opinion was relevant. The other one was for a clearly very successful, very savvy gentleman (an attorney, I believe) who certainly didn't need my help for anything financial related. Far be it for me to even question!

I think my job, beyond getting everything signed right and notarized, should be limited to pointing out the critical aspects of their documents so that they can make an informed decision about what they're doing. But like the saying about leading a horse to water, I can't make them read it - or do anything about it. I've also had too many opportunities to learn that we don't have a clue about what other people are dealing with in their lives.