Posted by MichiganAl on 8/16/09 4:46am
Msg #300206

Let me respond to about 4 different threads with 1 answer

It's none of our business. We are not attorneys, we are not loan officers, we are not the mortgage police, we do not have all the facts, we are not the borrowers mommies. Too many signing agents in too many situations sticking their noses where they don't belong.

Reply by PAW on 8/16/09 7:18am
Msg #300208

Hear, hear. - Couldn't agree more. n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 8/16/09 7:33am
Msg #300210

100% correct! n/m

Reply by Chris_NJ on 8/16/09 10:43am
Msg #300218

I agree n/m

Reply by Shoshana Roller on 8/16/09 11:20am
Msg #300219

Caveat Emptor n/m

Reply by mwm143 on 8/16/09 12:38pm
Msg #300222

Accept the mod app assignments at your own risk. n/m

Reply by CF on 8/16/09 1:05pm
Msg #300226

Re: Accept the mod app assignments at your own risk.

Funny how Notaries could be held accountable for only an application...and some think that it could not come down on a full blow loan signing. I think that it is foolish to think that being part of an inflated, fraudulent, or predatory loan may not come back to bite you!!!

Again- some will say that a Notary can not know what is a predatory loan...I can tell you that will not fly in front of a Judge. Remember you have no one backing you up....you are in business for yourself. Therefore, the decisions you make to notarize documents are equally on your shoulders only.

Honestly, I do not buy into the fact that a Notary may not be held accountable. As well as, I have no intentions of walking the line to find out. That is my story and I am sticking to it!!!

Reply by desktopfull on 8/16/09 1:27pm
Msg #300227

You are notarizing the signatures not the contents of the

document. I most certainly am not responsible for what is contained in the document the people are signing at a closing, not to mention that if you interfere and give your interpretation of the documents you are committing UPL, unless of course you are an attorney, licensed title agent, or the lender. Helping a borrower fill out an application and collecting the documents for a loan application is not notarial work and, yes, I can see where you could be held accountable in that regard. JMO, not giving legal advice, etc.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/16/09 5:15pm
Msg #300253

Re: Accept the mod app assignments at your own risk.

Sorry, I don't agree, which seems to be the prevailing opinion here. When I sit down with someone, I have a short introductory spiel I go over with them as I'm setting up which includes mention of the fact that I'm an independent contractor and a neutral party, not an attorney, can't give advice, etc. Most people already get that, some don't get it even after being told repeatedly, but the latter are rare. For those types, we just can't let ourselves get caught up into answering questions that are inappropriate for us to get into. And to bring up those kinds of issues on our own is even worse. If we suspect someone is being taken, the most we can do imo, is mention their right (if applicable) to have the documents reviewed by an attorney or get their questions (about fees, etc). addressed during their RTC period.

If faced with someone who was concerned about the fees being charged and they asked our opinion, I think the most we could do would be to tell them that if they have concerns, they could consider having a third party review the costs with them. However, I would NOT refer them to anyone. That would be stepping over the line, again, imo.

As for deciding what to notarize or not, that would depend on state laws. I imagine in most cases, that decision should be made solely based on whether or not the person presented adequate ID, had a complete document, etc. Like LKT said, the content of the document when we're wearing our notary hats is not our concern.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/16/09 1:39pm
Msg #300229

That's completely true except in the case of the loan mod application scam, which is illegal in many states, now including Virginia.

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/16/09 2:46pm
Msg #300233

Absolutely agree. We do know the facts on loan mod scams. n/m

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/16/09 5:18pm
Msg #300256

Here's how I handled the two loan mods I had

Both from the same company, both on the same day, both before we had heard much about these companies. From what I recall, the borrowers weren't being asked to come up with a large chuck of money up front, but they were being asked to sign a deed turning the house over to the lender and then paying the lender rent to stay in the house. As soon as they were late on one payment, the lender had the right to boot them out. So I just made sure they saw what they were signing, "This is your deed, take a look at what it says." They read, "Well it says we're turning our house over to them." Me, "Ok, is that what you want to do? Is that what you had agreed to?" No? Ok, they call the lender, lender gives them some b.s. about how they're not going to file the deed and that the borrower can go do a QCD right back to their names once they sign. So I ask the borrower, "Do you see anywhere that it says that in writing? Anything in your written agreement confirming that?" Nope. "Okay, you still want to sign these papers?" Nope. Ok, have a nice day. I didn't play lawyer, I didn't advise them, I just made sure they read what they were signing and let them figure it out. Then I called the company that hired me and said I wouldn't work for them again.

Reply by CF on 8/17/09 10:44am
Msg #300316

Re: Here's how I handled the two loan mods I had

Your above post is exactly how I handle situations. I have never given anyone legal advice. I, simply, have read and the borrowers have read the documents; and done the basic math on them. That is it.....it is their choice to sign! I have never done a modification transaction....for me the same applies to a refinance.


However, I still believe that a Notary may come into question if the borrowers find fault with their lender and their loan.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/16/09 3:07pm
Msg #300235

Agree with desktopfull

I don't know about other states, but Notaries Public in California are NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONTENTS OF ANY DOCUMENT, which is why we can notarize signatures on documents written in a foreign language. We can stand before a judge with clean hands because did our job and ONLY our job....as a Notary we witnessed signatures and as a SA, we pointed out the printed facts...nothing more. Seeing loan doc paperwork for the first time (the day of the signing appt) when we were not involved in all of the previous processes and conversations before those docs were drawn does not IMHO constitute a knowledge of fraud. While we may think the signers are unwise to sign their names to terms we wouldn't sign, that does not prove fraud.

We cannot save adults from their own ignorance and emotions. If they wish to sign their names - of their own free will - to a loan with terms we believe to be high.....it's their right! I also agree with the first poster.....mine your own business or get out of the SA business!

Reply by Maranga Ink Resources on 8/16/09 3:17pm
Msg #300237

Re: Agree with desktopfull

Besides doing our job of collecting and witnessing borrowers signatures, is good to pinpoint to the borrowers that they have 3 business day to review loan documents with an attorney.

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/16/09 5:28pm
Msg #300257

"mine" should be "mind" n/m

Reply by SharonMN on 8/17/09 8:26am
Msg #300295

Re: Agree with LKT/CA

Agree with LKT/CA - but so many companies seem to want signing agents to act as their representatives and meet with customers, take applications, etc. even when no notarization is involved. You want me to notarize some stuff? OK. You want me to act as a courier and pick up an envelope full of documents and drop it off somewhere else? OK, I can do that, too. You want me to be the only point of contact this person has with your company? Sorry, that's not part of the services I offer.

Reply by Margaret Paddock on 8/17/09 1:07pm
Msg #300361

Re: We are Only Notaries

I agree that we are just notaries, but when you are asked to do one thing and that is not what the documents ask you to do then you are not obligated to fulfill that agreement.

If I feel the documents are not as represented to me or the borrower then I would call the company that hired me even if it was the company that created the package.

You have the right to refuse to do any signing you feel is not legal/right. Just like when I refused to accept training over the phone to do an e signing using the borrowers laptop. Sure, I could probably have done it, but would it have been legal? I refused as I felt very uncomfortable.

Another reason to review docs before going to the borrower.