Posted by Christine Hall on 8/6/09 12:38pm
Msg #298941

Opinions needed please regarding borrower marital status

Do you think it is the notaries job to find out if borrower is married? I did a signing this week and only Mr was on docs, so only had him sign. Got a call the next day asking me to go out on my dime because he is married and wife needs to sign. They said it is my job to determine if he is married and if so to have him sign spousal docs. I looked at the docs that I had saved on my computer and the loan app states he is married so the TC and lender should have known that. Also nowhere on notary or closing instructions did it say to ask him if he is married and if so to have him sign such and such docs. The TC and lender called this a "notary error" and did not want to pay me a trip fee. I finally ended up getting a trip fee and will have Mrs sign docs today. Just wondering if you all ask if married and then proceed to have spounsal docs signing. I do not believe me not knowing Mr was married is "notary error". Thoughts please! Thanks

Reply by MW/VA on 8/6/09 12:41pm
Msg #298943

Even though we sometimes catch it at our end, IMO it is not our job. If the LO & tc were doing their job, they would have that information. I've encountered a few situations where people have married since purchasing their property and would have liked to add spouse to title if they had been asked
(would require a Gift Deed). Don't you think it would be part of the process to ask if there have been any changes to status since originally taking title? My .02

Reply by MW/VA on 8/6/09 12:42pm
Msg #298944

No, I wouldn't do it on my dime & as a "notary error". That's bs.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/6/09 12:43pm
Msg #298946

If only one borrower is listed on confirmation I always ask during initial confirmation phone call to borrower - if I find out they're married I advise hiring party accordingly. Saves time, aggravation and redraw later.

Reply by PAW on 8/6/09 1:06pm
Msg #298956

I usually don't ask, but ...

Property records are online here, so I always look up the property, primarily to see the GIS map so I know where the property is located. I also look at the property card to see what their middle initial or name is, if they used one for titling purposes. Occasionally I will notice that there is/are other persons named on title. That warrants a phone call to title if the names as shown on the property record don't match what's on the docs. A few times, the online database wasn't updated, especially if one of the parties named passed away recently. Other times, there will be a deed (warranty, special or quit claim) in the package to take care of the "discrepancy". Of course, the title company didn't inform me (or the signing service in some cases) about the deed in the package. (Deeds require witnesses, so it is beneficial to know that when confirming the closing.)

Reply by Teresa/FL on 8/6/09 1:09pm
Msg #298957

PAW - I also check the property records

for the same reasons you state, but I usually DO ask about marital status since sometimes there has been a change since they took title to the property.

Reply by PAW on 8/6/09 1:10pm
Msg #298959

Re: I usually don't ask, but ... (more)

I don't ask the property owner if they're married, but after determining other names on title, I ask the signers to check their driver's license or state ID to see if their name is Such N. Such and their spouses name is This N. That. Then I find out if they are married (or at least others on title will be available at the table).

Reply by jnew on 8/28/09 12:13pm
Msg #302113

Re: I usually don't ask, but ... (more)

names on title many times are wrong. The seller's attorney prepares deed incorrectly and is not discovered at closing. I think a notary does not need to ask marital status, but when you put your signing agent hat on it would be a good idea. That beg's another question. Many times a document will have a preprinted ack. that states husband and wife. Is the notary certifying marital status without some identifying document?

Reply by Sugarlump60 on 8/6/09 4:38pm
Msg #299044

I always aske at confirmation when I inform them that I need copy of driver license.

Reply by Jess/CT on 8/6/09 12:50pm
Msg #298947

I had one instance were there was a non-borrowing spouse that was not listed on any docs and I didn't have her sign at the time, which required a revisit.

Since then, I ask the person hiring me if the BO is married and if the spouse is on the loan or a non-borrowing spouse. This helps me to know what to expect before getting to the appt.

Reply by Richard Ingram on 8/6/09 12:54pm
Msg #298950

I always ask if the borrower is married when I confirm signing time and ask for copies of identification. Generally saves lots f time and confusion as my state is a spousal state.

Reply by Roger_OH on 8/6/09 1:03pm
Msg #298952

This has been discussed before. I think that the companies hiring us do expect a certain amount of basic signing agent knowledge, and that includes confirming BOs marital status.

There are many occasions when a non-borrowing spouse has no signature line, but a good NSA will know to double check the 1003, and then confirm with the TC that they do indeed want the RTC, TIL, and MTG (and possibly some title docs) signed by the non-borrower. Borrowers are often unaware that the other spouse even has to be present.

You will save yourself many a redraw (and delays to the borrowers) by going the extra mile in this manner, and your TCs will remember you for it.

Reply by PAW on 8/6/09 1:18pm
Msg #298966

Why check the 1003?

A non-obligated borrower will not appear on the app.

Reply by Roger_OH on 8/6/09 1:21pm
Msg #298969

But the BOs marital status will... n/m

Reply by PAW on 8/6/09 1:28pm
Msg #298970

Re: But the BOs marital status will...

Correct answer. (Just testing. ) Unfortunately, the broker usually doesn't get it right. They get all the financial data, but never ask if a borrower is married. So what do they do? Check 'unmarried'.

Reply by SharonMN on 8/6/09 2:01pm
Msg #298984

I would not consider it my job to determine whether the borrower is married - it is the lender's job to interview the borrower and draw up the appropriate documents! If I show up and there is a person there that Mr. Borrower is referring to as "my wife" I will call the hiring party, inform them of that, and ask what they want me to do, but that's it.

The only other reason it would come up is due to MN notary law requiring that if husband and wife join together in signing something the acknowledgement must list them as "John Smith and Jane Smith, husband and wife" - so in that case, I simply ask if they are married to each other.

Reply by doglover/CA on 8/6/09 2:12pm
Msg #298988

Do work for Prolink and you'll get a confirmation that states the borrower's marital status.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 8/6/09 2:57pm
Msg #299006

Reasons why I DO consider it part of my job ...

I'll try and keep this very simple - here are just a couple from my laundry list of reasons:

1. The Owner's Affidavit: This is in virtually every loan pkg, usually notarized and usually with a jurat. It asks about marital status and/or about any other parties with title interest. If you're not considering it your duty to ask, how are you presenting this document?

2. The Mortgage: The State of MI requires a person's marital status within the vesting on the front, in order to record. I actually ask if it's correct.

3. The Title Affidavit (same as above Owner's Aff)

4. The 1003 - I point out the pertinent bits on each page, ALWAYS. Always did and always will - how many people are now homeless because their 1003 showed income that was far beyond reality? The 1003 is a vital document. It shows both marital status, and how title is held (dec section), and I point those out.

So, I won't even bother getting into shared responsibilities, the differences between a loan signing agent and a 'point & sign' notary, or any of the other long-winded topics I could pull in from. This should do it.

Reply by A S Johnson on 8/6/09 3:25pm
Msg #299026

Re: Reasons why I DO consider it part of my job ...

Not to be negative.
A LO for GMAC, NC office, took me off the acceptable Notary list for them because I would not do a signing.
When I arrived at the signing their was a woman with young 2 young childern. I ask if they were his childern. Yes they were.
Ask id she was his wife. Yes but not married.
explained that she would need to sign the NBS docs.
He would not allow it. His comment was "if I had gone to a title co office, they would not know and complete the package."
Called the LO. Her comment was that doesn't matter, he's the only one on the docs and that the way I want them signed.
I refuse to complete the signing.
I've also have asked the female who answered the phone when I called, who she is. If she indicates she is wife/live in partner I called title/escrow co. Most times I am told they had been told he was not married and their were no NBS docs. I done those signing.
I have adopted the attitude, that if I do "due diligence" and am told to do it "thier"way, so be it.
I am only the Notary.

Reply by taxpro on 8/6/09 3:51pm
Msg #299029

Re: Reasons why I DO consider it part of my job ...

You refused to do the signing because he had a live-in girlfriend? And they stated they were not married?

I don't get it.

Live-in girlfriend, albeit mother of kids, does not equal spouse, where I live.

If they split up, they can duke it out in court. But she does not belong on the docs unless she holds title with him.

Reply by sue_pa on 8/6/09 7:39pm
Msg #299073

Re: Reasons why I DO consider it part of my job ...

Not only did he/she step WAY overbounds on this one with the girlfriend ... who has ever looked at a child and asked who their father was ... especially this day in age?

As usual, perhaps I'm just missing something here ... if not ... oh my.

Reply by taxpro on 8/6/09 3:45pm
Msg #299028

Why not ask?

If no spouse's name is on the confirmation, I always ask, just as a preemptive strike. I don't care whether or not it's "my job"; this is to save further problems down the road later on. Many times I find out they're married, and the title company didn't even know. Then they're scrambling to add a QCD or something, and a Sig/Name Aff and ID form for the spouse. It's a simple question. Yes or No. Why not ask up front?
Also, I'm in a spousal state, and the NBS has to sign the TIL, Itemization, RTC, Mortgage, and Riders, and most of the title docs. Many years ago, once I had to go back and get the NBS to sign these docs, so now I ask. Just easier that way.

Reply by Shelley Pahn on 8/13/09 9:02pm
Msg #299895

Re: Why not ask? if married

this title company in NY DID NOT GIVE me borrowers phone to confirm.
it is a major company always on the stick.
so I could not call and ask. it was a refi
of second home,not investment.
the lo was going to make
mega bucks, me 100
i always confirm and ask marital status
when given the phone number
of order. i looked on their
website next day and they got a
notary to do it
without wife.