Posted by walthtz on 8/19/09 9:30am
Msg #300759

Scanning >

Here is a suggestion for you.

As of about 6 months ago, I have started Scanning the entire package after it is signed, but before it is returned.
I also include my confirmation as well as a copy of the air bill that is used.

I do that to protect myself & yesterday it came into play:

I had a title company call me & tell me that I did not notarize the Signature/Name Affadavit on a loan of about 4 months ago. They expected that I would immediately, after recieving their copy by fax, back date it to the date of the signing & notarize & then forward it at my expense to them them or they would make a claim against my E & O insurance & hold me liable.

I was able to pull the copy from the package I had scanned & prove to them I did it correctly.

And before you ask, yes it takes a little more work on my part.
I tell the companies that expect me to get the package out the same day, that I do this & that it might be delayed a day because of this.

I have a Brother MFC 8500 MultiFuction Fax machine that is about 7 years old.
It stills works great as an out bound fax & when I scan, I scan to the PC; it only takes about 5 minutes to scan a package of 100 pages.
For inbound faxing I use Paxtell which goes directly to my E-mail.

In closing, while I think that this can be time consumming, this seves to protect myself as well as the BR. If I believe that the title company in question is only there to protect the BR's, here is proof that if I had listened to them, accepted their word, I would have been breaking the law, possibly putting the BR's in question in trouble & who knows what else.

I have been doing this work for many years, & and of late, the people out there in these compaies don't seem to care about us, their jobs or even their work ethics. I feel that i need to make sure that I and my family are protected as much as I can.

I do know that this is not for everyone out there, but for me it is.

Walter in NJ.

Reply by Regal/NC on 8/19/09 9:46am
Msg #300761

Slippery Slope!!!!

Sounds like a slippery slope to me. I would have requested they send me a copy of the original document that I returned as proof that I missed. In my journal I record all documents that I notarized on a visit. As the documents contain personal information and belong to the lender, I would never scan and keep signed documents. When were you going to get rid of them?

JMHO!!!

Reply by Linda Hubbell on 8/19/09 9:49am
Msg #300762

Re: Scanning ... Disagree

As practical as this may sound, I don't think you have the right to keep a copy of the borrowers' loan file and personal information in your files forever. I know if you were MY closer/notary/signing agent, I'd not be happy that you retained a copy of all my financial information in whatever type filing system you may have.

In FL, we are not authorized to keep copies of the documents we notarize so that wouldn't fly here at all.

Further, think about this - if a company calls me four months after the fact to tell me I missed a notarization, they'll need to prove it to me and I'll fix MY error on MY dime....however, if they can't prove to me that it was my oversight, then they need to pay me to go back out and fix the fact that they obviously lost the document in question.

MHO

Reply by Regal/NC on 8/19/09 9:52am
Msg #300765

Re: Scanning ... Disagree

I concur. They have to prove to me that the document was part of the original package I received.

Reply by walthtz on 8/19/09 12:11pm
Msg #300818

Re: Scanning ... Disagree

Hi
I did not say that I keep copies forever.
At the moment it is a 6 month window.
Every so often, I check on a State site here, called Land &Tax records.com.
This site is free for us to use in NJ.
Once, I see that the Mtg has been recorded, I delete the file.

Hope that answered your comment.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/19/09 3:19pm
Msg #300880

Re: Scanning ... Disagree

Walt, you also didn't say you only kept them til the mortgage recorded...you didn't mention you limited the time at all..you just said you scanned them and kept them - that's what I was responding to. I, too, keep the docs on my computer until my invoice is paid, then it's deleted.

By the way, the mortgage shouldn't take 6 months to record....it's recorded as soon as possible after funding, most times within less than 30 days of funding....JME

Reply by Vince/KS on 8/19/09 9:52am
Msg #300766

When you keep a copy in your system, do you secure or encode the file so that others that may use your system cannot access the files? Or do you save it off on portable media that is secure? At the moment, I'm getting two new credit cards (Discover and Mastercard) from different companies because they said someone may have assesed the database files that were out of the company's control, so they are issuing new cards just in case. American Express sent out a similar alert.

Most financial companies are getting much more concerned about the availability of information. Just wondering what you are doing to make certain that the records you said you are keeping are secure?

Reply by MW/VA on 8/19/09 10:04am
Msg #300774

I agree. This sounds like a violation of the GLBA. How long do you keep these files before deleting them? Now, if you scan & keep copies of only docs you've notarized, that might be a different story.
IMO you have no business maintaining files of loan docs.

Reply by walthtz on 8/19/09 12:12pm
Msg #300819

Re: Scanning > n/m

Reply by walthtz on 8/19/09 12:13pm
Msg #300821

Hi.
Yes, the files are kept on a secure drive.
You cannot access them.

Walt

Reply by PAW on 8/19/09 12:38pm
Msg #300830

Re: Scanning > As I replied on another forum:

Disregarding the statement in the Florida Governor's Reference Manual for Notaries which state:
"Notaries are not authorized to keep copies of the documents they notarize. The best way to protect yourself is to document your notarial acts in a journal (record book or log)."

Keeping a copy of the paperwork, either in hard or soft copy, places not only you, the signing agent, but the lender, title company and possibly a signing service, in a very precarious position. By having personal identification information, you now become responsible for its safekeeping. That means that you must comply with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act and the Privacy Act of 1974, 5 U.S.C. § 552a . Further, the lender may end up being required to expand, and possibly re-certify, their SAS-70 certification.

I can certainly understand your purpose, but imo the liability outweighs the benefit.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/19/09 3:32pm
Msg #300883

Re: Scanning > As I replied on another forum:

Obviously, we shouldn't be keeping copies of signed loan packages, but off the top of my head, I can't think of a notarized loan doc where a borrower's confidential information would be jeopardized by the notary maintaining a copy - besides, many of these are readily available online or by a visit to the county recorder's office. Where is the trouble/violation of the law maintaining a copy of the notarized page of the deed, the E&O/compliance agreement, name aff, occ aff, etc., IF there is no personal info on them besides the borrower's name? In fact, many loans I see have a notarization page competely separate from the sig page.
If a TC is smart, they won't say you didn't notarize something (in which case your copy of the notarization will come in handy); they should say that they never received the document in question. You can never prove otherwise, even if you copied it 40,000 times.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/19/09 9:18pm
Msg #301017

The issue here is this..

He said "As of about 6 months ago, I have started Scanning the entire package after it is signed, but before it is returned."

He scans the entire signed package...not just the notarized pages.

And in FL, even the notarized pages wouldn't fly.....we're not allowed...period.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/20/09 12:23pm
Msg #301067

Not to beat a dead horse..

...but this FL statue make no sense (to me). Imagine this scenario: For whatever reason, you want a copy of the notarized page of a DOT that you notarized, but you can't make and keep a copy yourself ... you can't go to the recorder's offce and get a copy (but anybody else in the United States of America can), and if you were ever caught with a copy - no matter how you obtained it - let's say I gave you a copy - you'd be in violation of the law???

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/20/09 9:12pm
Msg #301135

Goldgirl...technically...yeah...per FL notary law...

Page 42 of our Manual...

"Notaries are not authorized to keep copies of the documents they notarize. The best way to protect yourself is to document your notarial acts in a journal (record book or log)."

Goes on to say though a journal is not required but if we keep one what info should be included.

So, yes...any FL notary keeping copies of docs they've notarized is in violation of FL notary law.

Reply by John Schenk on 8/20/09 9:46pm
Msg #301142

Only thing I keep

is my confirmation, fax confirmation page (if there's a fax), sender's airbill copy (if there's no preprinted one), Mapquest printout with mileage (for tax purposes on mileage), and My Invoice. That's it!

If one gets canceled, I almost immediately shred the docs, if I've printed them. If I scan in signed docs and email them, I delete the scanned file as soon as it's been emailed. I delete all .pdf downloads to my computer, other than the confirmation and instructions, upon completing the closing. I don't need, or want, that stuff on my computer.

I have a file for each TC and NSS, and I put the name of the borrower under that file as soon as I get the assignment. Next comes the confirmation, which I put in there if it's a downloaded one. Then I generate an Invoice, which goes in that file. Edocs come in, they go in that file. Edocs printed, I go the signing, get'em signed off, and return and delete the edoc file(s). Invoice is already done and goes into the FedEx, if it's for title, or it gets emailed and/or faxed to the NSS, unless they pay off confirmations on their site. The file at the end is the name of the company I did it for, subfile of the borrower, an Invoice, and possibly the confirmation. I always have a hard copy of the confirmation that I keep.

JJ