Posted by Alice/MD on 8/14/09 4:31pm
Msg #300062

Why extra signed copies of Note & Mortgage being requested?

I was instructed to get borrower to sign (2) Notes; (3) Mortgages. Why are lenders needing so many copies. Also , they requested a total of 5 HUDs signed.

Reply by LynnNC on 8/14/09 4:32pm
Msg #300063

Why doesn't matter - I just do what they ask!

Reply by rengel/CA on 8/14/09 4:35pm
Msg #300064

I am finding that more and more common these days.

Just go with the flow........

My .02

Reply by MW/VA on 8/14/09 4:52pm
Msg #300066

It's a CYA thing. I've still always been told that extra copies of the Note need to be marked "certified copy". I know this was discussed a quite a while ago. Again, we can't give legal advice.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/14/09 4:53pm
Msg #300067

I haven't had the duplicate note (which I'd be leary of unless stamped "copy" and mortgage but my recent closings have all required 5 signed HUD's...leading the borrowers to comment "you're kidding, right?? What do they need all these for??"..

Reply by Alice/MD on 8/14/09 5:41pm
Msg #300079

Do I stamp it" copy "with the original signature on each one in blue ink? Due I copy the original and send copies only? This is getting the water muddy.

Reply by Alice/MD on 8/14/09 5:46pm
Msg #300081

Spelling correction ....meant to spell do.. not due.

I know how some of you are on the spelling errors lately .

Reply by GA/Atty on 8/14/09 5:24pm
Msg #300076

A borrower should not sign more than one note for the same

indebtedness unless there is some notation that they are doing so.

If I get 2 notes in a package (like from Equity National), I mark one as a certified copy before I send it back.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/14/09 5:33pm
Msg #300077

Re: A borrower should not sign more than one note for the same

"I mark one as a certified copy before I send it back."

You, as an attorney, have more latitude here....your everyday signing agent doesn't have the authority to determine "certified copy" from "duplicate original" from "squat"...THAT is bordering UPL for us.

MHO

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/14/09 5:49pm
Msg #300082

Re: A borrower should not sign more than one note for the same

Linda's right - you can certainly make the determination to do that, but those of us who are not attorneys could be dancing on the UPL line...

It should be noted (no pun intended) that just about every note I've seen has had a file number on it. If you've got multiple copies of the same document with the same file number, doesn't it become obvious that the additionals are duplicates? Plus, two notes signed on the same date for the same amount, and with the same terms - wouldn't a reasonable person come to the conclusion that one of them is a second copy?

Reply by Cari on 8/14/09 5:59pm
Msg #300086

Equity National does do this.... n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/14/09 5:39pm
Msg #300078

Simple answer - they want wet-signed copies, in case one of the originals gets lost.

Reply by Cari on 8/14/09 5:58pm
Msg #300085

just in case the borrower defaults and goes to court and

asks the lender to to 'show me the note'....to prove they owe the loan....

anyway, that's my guess, i'm stickin' to it...

Reply by MichiganAl on 8/14/09 6:58pm
Msg #300093

Ours is not to question why... n/m

Reply by PAW on 8/14/09 7:16pm
Msg #300095

I certainly agree with Ed that no one should sign multiple original Notes. Even if the loan number is printed on it, there's nothing stopping them from switching the pages to make it appear that there are two loans. Now, if one of the Notes is clearly marked "COPY" (certified or not), then there shouldn't be a problem. Whenever I get the request (99% of the time from Equity National), I annotate the borrowers copy that two Notes, identical to 'this' copy were signed.

Equity National has been marking the second copy as a copy for the past couple of years. I haven't done one for them in a while, so things may have changed back.

Reply by Pat/IL on 8/14/09 8:41pm
Msg #300101

Almost without exception, the title agent is required to return at least one (often more) certified copy of the note. My guess is that the act of a title company employee certifying a true and exact copy may not fly in some states or, as some have suggested here, may have been challenged in court of late.

Personally, I don't see the problem. It seems to me it would be easy enough to determine that there was no duplicate payment in favor of the borrower to go along with the duplicate note. There would need to be a record of the money being transfered from the lender to the borrower. If a borrower signs a note and then rescinds, the lender is still in possession of a signed note. It is an unenforceable note.

As to the mortgage document, I would think you could sign 50 of them. But the net effect would be a single lien on the property. Just another opinion, not a lawyer - obviously.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 8/14/09 9:11pm
Msg #300103

" Even if the loan number is printed on it, there's nothing stopping them from switching the pages to make it appear that there are two loans"

How would they do that without changing the loan number? It appears on every page of the note...

More to the point - WHY would they do that? Has there ever been an instance where a bank or other lender tried to collect more than once on the same note?

Reply by PAW on 8/15/09 7:54am
Msg #300117

>>> How would they do that without changing the loan number? It appears on every page of the note... <<<

Just went through the last three Notes that I still have. None of them have the loan number on every page. One only has it of the first page, and the other two do not have the number on any page. Switching out the first page would be as easy as pie in all three of these cases. All three are "FLORIDA FIXED RATE NOTE - Single Family - Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac UNIFORM INSTRUMENT Form 3210 1/01" documents which does not have a particular place to insert the loan number.

Reply by LynnNC on 8/15/09 9:46am
Msg #300126

I always have borrowers initial all pages of the note for two reasons - pages of the note cannot be swtiched out and the borrowers can't say that they have been. It is not up to me to question why they want multiple copies.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/15/09 11:23am
Msg #300144

I've done a lot of signings for Equity National. The 2nd copy of the Note is clearly marked "Certified Copy", no exceptions.

Reply by Alice/MD on 8/15/09 12:43pm
Msg #300150

This was not Equity National; it was Mortgage Source, LLC. The doc package was loaded with everything but the kitchen sink. There were triple of just about everything. I will not take another one of their loans unless I up my fee.