Posted by Cheryl Mihalik on 12/31/09 11:45am
Msg #316261

Borrower Signatures

This has really been bothering me. As everyone knows, it is stressed the importance of having people sign exactly as their name appears on the doc's. That being said, many times (dare I say most times) the borrowers signature does not in any way, shape or form even LOOK like their name.

I always try to impress upon the BO that they need to sign it as their names appear, but they will out right refuse and say that that's not their signature and they will only sign with their signature.

The NNA told me that we cannot make anyone sign any way except their original signature. If they insist upon signing their normal signature, we have to honor that.

Based on what's been shared in these forums, I'm starting to wonder if I'm getting correct info from the NNA. Any feed back would be ever so appreciated.

Happy New Year all! xo

Reply by Lee/AR on 12/31/09 11:54am
Msg #316263

You cannot tell someone what their signature is 'to be'. It is what it is. All you can do is hope it's an illegible scrawl. If so, I ask "Does that say John J. Jones?" and if they say 'yes'--that's good enough for me. Problem comes up when they insist their signature is JJJ--and it looks like JJJ--which is NOT John J. Jones. At which point I tell them that their loan MAY not fund unless they make the Lender/TC happy by doing the whole 9 yards--John J. Jones. Most people comply.

Reply by Cheryl Mihalik on 12/31/09 12:02pm
Msg #316264

Do you note that when returning the doc's to the TC/Lender?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/31/09 12:05pm
Msg #316265

Nope..they have a copy of the DL usually

so signature should be apparent on that..

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/31/09 1:08pm
Msg #316269

I DO put a note in if I think there may be a question about

it. Call it a pre-emptive strike. I also make a notation on my confirmation paperwork for that transaction. I've never had one come back to bite me yet.

I agree with the others - if it's iffy, I will ask the B if his/her signature includes the middle initial and if they say yes, then we proceed. Not much else you can do about it.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/31/09 8:43pm
Msg #316324

"..I tell them that their loan MAY not fund unless.." When I used these words a couple of weeks ago it was suggested that UPL was being committed. I suppose if you tell them how to sign their names...it is Aahhh?? I agree with you, it is what it is. I once had someone let's say named Williams who actually drew eyeballs with eyelashes for the dot as the letter "i"....

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 12/31/09 12:25pm
Msg #316266

Re: How do you know their signature doesn't match

their name? It's THEIR unique signature -- just because YOU can't read it, doesn't mean that it's not their signature. My signature is illegible to 99% of the people, but it's MY signature.

Reply by Cheryl Mihalik on 12/31/09 12:59pm
Msg #316268

Awesome! How do you know their signature doesn't match

So, at least the NNA was right about that one...tee hee

And the lenders/TC's won't give you a hard time, especially when it comes to the Mort/DOT?

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 12/31/09 1:22pm
Msg #316273

Re: You're making this into too much. I certainly hope

you never sign for a doctor or a lawyer where their sig is usually a straight line or sometimes a line with a slight zag.

Reply by Cheryl Mihalik on 12/31/09 1:25pm
Msg #316274

Re: You're making this into too much. I certainly hope

hmmm, okay, well, the question was answered, so now it doesn't matter who will be signing. It's great to get the feedback and explanation.

Thank you for your feedback too!

xoCherylxo

Reply by desktopfull on 12/31/09 1:21pm
Msg #316271

There is a difference in requesting someone to write their name and give you their signature. The difference is that most signatures aren't legible, that's what people use that's unique to them that is not easily copied by others. You need the signature when people are signing legal documents, not writing their name. That's why they ask you to print your name under the signature so you can be identified with the signature.

That's the easiest way I know to explain this.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 12/31/09 1:32pm
Msg #316276

Re: Finally ...

and no two signatures for the same person are identical. Funny you should mention printing -- recently my husband and I sold a vehicle and were "signing" the back of the title -- sign and print. My husband went first and then handed to me. This particular title instructed the name to be printed and signed and dated under it. I began printing my name and my husband said to me "you need to print your name first" as if I didn't know what I was doing. I pointed out to him that I WAS printing and not to worry about what my printed name or written signature looked like. Needless to say, if someone came to my house to present legal documents and questioned my signature and instructed me to sign a legible way, they would be shown the door in no uncertain terms.

Reply by Cheryl Mihalik on 12/31/09 2:16pm
Msg #316289

Re: Finally ...LOL

Point taken & very much appreciated.

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/31/09 2:38pm
Msg #316295

<<<This has really been bothering me. As everyone knows, it is stressed the importance of having people sign exactly as their name appears on the doc's. That being said, many times (dare I say most times) the borrowers signature does not in any way, shape or form even LOOK like their name.>>>

If the borrower signs legibly, then I ask them to sign as their name is printed. If their signature is illegible, I say nothing. I'm actually glad when they do have an illegible signature as it's easier than having to watch the others [with legible signatures] and make sure they've added their middle initial. Usually, their ID will have the same scribbly signature on it. I've never had any issues from the hiring entity because of it. I personally do not have a legible signature and only sign my name one way, no matter what is printed.

Reply by Les_CO on 12/31/09 2:48pm
Msg #316296

I agree!
I love the MD’s that sign their name 100 times a day. I’ve never been able to decipher one of their signatures. Conversely, I hate the older people (especially ladies) that actually took ‘penmanship’ in school, that have a beautiful cursive signature, that takes them two minutes to produce.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 12/31/09 5:17pm
Msg #316307

If the sig is illegible, I say; "There's an M in there,

right?" Then I grin. "Oh, yeah" is the always their answer.

If legible, and they have a different variation, I watch them like a hawk. People are almost always willing to make an effort to comply.

Always make sure you have the variations on the Signature/Name Affidavit.

Happy New Year!

Reply by CaliNotary on 12/31/09 6:30pm
Msg #316317

I'm not quite sure why you're even asking

Hasn't your own experience already given you the answer? It sounds to me like you've done plenty of loans where the signature is illegible, yet you didn't say it's actually caused you any problems. So why on earth would you let something that isn't causing any problems bother you?

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/31/09 7:01pm
Msg #316318

Re: I'm not quite sure why you're even asking

I notarized their signature on the Doc as I observed after I ID them. If it matches the ID, no matter what it looks like, that's who they are. If person is paralyzed, can't write, then it's scribble and photo ID.

Reply by PAW on 12/31/09 7:35pm
Msg #316321

Re: I'm not quite sure why you're even asking

>>> If it matches the ID, no matter what it looks like, that's who they are. <<<

So, you're saying that you are also a handwriting expert! (j/k) I really don't care what their signature on their ID looks like as long as I properly ID the signer and I watch them sign the document, then it's their signature on the document. I know this because I watched them do it. As long as all the signatures on all the documents and in my journal all match to my satisfaction, not as an expert, I'm good to go. I didn't watch them sign their ID, so who knows, maybe they had a busted finger, broken hand, coughed in the middle of a stroke of the pen. But watching them sign all the documents, I can say, with utmost certainty that the signatures are those of the person who I identified.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/31/09 7:44pm
Msg #316322

Re: I'm not quite sure why you're even asking

No, Not an expert. Just using an acceptable ID to ID them. My writing is soooo bad, I draw my name.....but I draw it the same way each time.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/1/10 6:54pm
Msg #316378

Re: I'm not quite sure why you're even asking

Good points, Paul, directly to the heart of the issue!

You also never know what some one-cell at the DMV told them about how they "had" to sign their name. I run into that from time to time, too. Sorry - didn't mean to demean DMV employees around the country, but it seems that they sometimes tend to follow rigid guidelines without applying any common sense, or allowing for cultural or literacy differences, etc. Especially in our country, you can't fit everyone with the same shoe. Likewise, we all need to use a bit of common sense when it comes to IDing people and giving them guidance about signing documents.

Reply by Robert/FL on 1/3/10 4:39pm
Msg #316502

When I do wills in my office the testator/trix has to sign exactly as their name is printed. Most of the time that entails their full first, middle, and last names. I've never had someone refuse to sign that way.

But in cases of loan docs or general notarizations, as long as it is similar to the signature on their driver license I wouldn't make a fuss. Tell the borrower that they should sign like it is printed, but if the borrower refuses, let them sign how they want. If the lender/title co. wants to be picky, let them argue with the borrower over it.

If I draw a Christmas tree for my signature and acknowledge that to be my signature before a notary, and assuming that the Christmas tree is also my signature on my driver license, it should be accepted by the notary as my signature, regardless of whether or not it matches the name, IMO.