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Dewey, cheatum and how finance...
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Dewey, cheatum and how finance...
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Posted by Notarysigner on 12/16/09 3:56pm
Msg #314648

Dewey, cheatum and how finance...

Yesterday I had the displeasure of notarizing a loan document for a person who agreed to paying 72% interest on a loan. Are times really that hard? Is anybody else seeing this? It hurts.

Reply by John Schenk on 12/16/09 4:09pm
Msg #314652

Sounds userious to me. n/m

Reply by John Schenk on 12/16/09 4:10pm
Msg #314654

Could be usurious too, if I could type. LOL n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/17/09 2:27pm
Msg #314766

I dunno. You may be more right than it appears...

Userious = R U Serious??!!!!!! Wink

Reply by mwm143 on 12/16/09 4:09pm
Msg #314653

There are predatory lending laws in place. However

that doesn't mean high interest rates can't be negotiated. But I've never heard of a 72% interest rate. If that's accurate then I'm certain the brwr knew exactly what they were getting and it must have been darned important to them. Remember a good deal is a state of mind.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/16/09 4:13pm
Msg #314655

Can't be ...no way ...what kind of loan, between two private parties, or was a lending institution involved?

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/16/09 4:24pm
Msg #314658

Believe it or not, a lending institution....that's why a addressed it as such. Without practicing law, I asked if they read the loan agreement and the reply was yes. Appeared intelligent, I signed at their place of business; but damn! Finance charge was more then the loan obviously . They put up collateral for the loan. The amount was far less then $5,000.00 dollars.

Reply by mwm143 on 12/16/09 4:27pm
Msg #314659

Far less than $5,000.00? Clearly he really needed the money and it's not a mortgage on his home. Don't feel bad for the guy. He knew what he was doing.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/16/09 4:30pm
Msg #314661

S H E........

Reply by John Schenk on 12/16/09 4:17pm
Msg #314656

You'll find this interesting...I did! WOW!

Basic California Usury Laws

California usury law is not easily accessible. The relevant legislative provisions are scattered throughout various sections of the California Constitution, Civil Code, Financial Code, Corporations Code and Insurance Code. Federal statutes and regulations are also pertinent. Criminal penalties are provided in the Civil Code rather than the Penal Code.

The basic usury laws in California are in the state Constitution at Article 15. For consumer loans, the parties may contract for interest on a loan primarily for personal, family or household purposes at a rate not exceeding ten percent per year. A loan to be used primarily for the purchase, construction or improvement of real property is not regarded as a loan for personal, family or household purposes.

For all other loans, the allowable rate is the higher of (a) ten percent; or (b) five percent over the amount charged by the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco on advances to member banks on the twenty-fifth day of the month before origination of the loan. As of October 1, 2009 the applicable Federal Reserve Bank rate was 0.50 percent, meaning that any non-exempt loan bearing interest at greater than ten percent would be usurious.

Caveat: Maximum interest rates refer to the simple interest rate on the unpaid balance.

Ways to Sidestep the Usury Trap

California does provide a large number of exemptions from its usury laws which informed lenders will seek to fall within.

Exemptions for certain evidences of indebtedness

Two of the most commonly used exemptions from the California usury laws for commercial transactions apply to evidences of indebtedness (e.g., promissory notes or bonds) with face amount of at least $300,000 at the time of issuance, or where the borrower has assets of at least $2 million at the time of issuance. In order to qualify for these exemptions, neither the borrower nor a guarantor of the indebtedness may be an individual, the lender must have a pre-existing relationship with the borrower or guarantor or reasonably appear to the borrower to have the capacity to protect its own interests in the transaction, and the loan must not be primarily for personal, family or household purposes. [2]

The usury laws also do not apply to evidences of indebtedness:

● rated by S&P as AAA, AA, A, BBB, or investment grade commercial paper or by Moody’s as Aaa, Aa, A, Baa, or investment grade commercial paper;

● where the issuer has any security listed on a national securities exchange or NASDAQ;

● where the issuer is a reporting company under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, had total shareholders’ equity of at least $1 million at the end of its most recent fiscal year, and had consolidated net income of at least $500,000 for three of its last four fiscal years; or

* issued pursuant to a costly and time consuming “qualification”, requiring a permit for the issuance of the securities from the California Department of Corporations.

Exemptions for certain licensed lenders

The usury laws do not apply to loans made or arranged by a California-licensed real estate broker and secured in whole or in part by a lien on real property, regardless of whether the real estate broker was acting in that capacity.[3] The usury laws also do not apply to licensed securities broker-dealers acting pursuant to a certificate which is then in effect.

Exemptions for loans made by financial institutions and insurance companies

The usury laws do not apply to loans made by or obligations of most depository financial institutions such as banks, savings and loan associations, and credit unions.[4] The California Financial Code applies this exemption to: (1) state banks and other states’ banks and national banks with an office in California if the bank is authorized to engage in the trust business and is acting in its fiduciary capacity; (2) certain foreign banks with assets of at least $100 million; (3) bank holding companies and their nonbank subsidiaries; (4) commercial finance lenders licensed to engage in the business of making commercial loans (i.e., loans of $5,000 or more which the borrower intends to use primarily for other than personal, family or household purposes); (5) consumer finance lenders (i.e., entities engaged in the business of making consumer loans) making loans with principal amount of $2,500 or more; and (6) mortgage bankers making loans to corporations with principal amount of $100,000 or more secured by a lien on real property.

The usury laws do not apply to “federally related” loans secured by a first lien on residential property. “Federally related” loans are loans made by any lender whose deposits are insured by any federal agency, loans made by any lender regulated by any federal agency, loans made by any lender approved by the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) for participation in any mortgage insurance program under the National Housing Act, and loans made or guaranteed by HUD or eligible for purchase by the Federal National Mortgage Association, the Government National Mortgage Association, or the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp.

The usury laws do not apply to bank charges for third party credit cards (Visa, MasterCard, American Express, etc).

The usury laws also do not apply to loans made by insurance companies.

Miscellaneous exemptions

The California Constitution partially exempts certain lenders from the usury laws who are likely to lend to the most vulnerable borrowers. Consumer finance lenders making loans with a principal amount of less than $2,500, personal property brokers (i.e., persons in the business of lending money and receiving as security a contract calling for a forfeiture to the lender of rights in personal property), licensed pawnbrokers (i.e., persons in the business of receiving goods as security for loans), and industrial loan companies are subject to higher interest rate restrictions than those imposed by the usury laws.

The usury laws do not apply to corporations or associations engaged exclusively in the business of marketing agricultural, horticultural, viticultural, dairy, livestock, poultry and bee products on a cooperative nonprofit basis when lending to members thereof or when securing credit from any federal intermediate credit bank.[5]

The usury laws do not apply to time payment contracts, e.g., when a seller finances the purchase of real or personal property by extending payments over time. Other state laws may impose limits on the finance charges imposed by credit sellers (e.g., a retail installment contract between a buyer and seller for the payment for consumer goods and services in installments, where the buyer pays a service charge).

The usury laws do not apply to bonds issued by a state or local government.[6] The usury laws do not apply to any loans made by, or evidences of indebtedness purchased by, any licensee.[7] The usury laws do not apply to pension funds and retirement systems subject to ERISA, as well as state or local public retirement systems. Lenders making shared appreciation loans (i.e., secured loans giving the lender a right to receive a share of the appreciation in the value of the security property) from ERISA pension funds are exempt from the usury laws.[8]

The usury laws do not apply to funds held in trust by physicians’ and surgeons’ cooperative indemnity corporations for indemnifying members for medical malpractice claims. The usury laws do not apply to loans made by business and industrial development corporations (i.e., California corporations licensed to provide financial and management assistance to business firms).

Conclusion

Although the California usury laws are vitiated in part by a myriad of exemptions and carve-outs, the harsh consequences of violating the usury laws make it important for lenders to look carefully at the usury laws and exemptions, especially as the exemptions are not always straightforward or intuitive. While most professional lenders are exempt from the usury laws, problems can arise when ordinary nonexempt companies or individuals make loans. And in some situations, including the two examples in the Introduction, there simply is no exemption even for corporation to corporation transactions.

This article is intended to provide a general summary of the California usury laws and should not be construed as a legal opinion nor a complete legal analysis of the subject matter. June Lin is an attorney at Niesar & Vestal LLP in San Francisco, a law firm specializing in business law and corporate finance. For more information, please visit http://www.primerus.com/firms/niesar_whyte_vestal.htm or http://www.nvlawllp.com.
[1] Usury is defined as the charging of interest in excess of that allowed by law. Interest is defined as any compensation or benefit received by the lender as part of a loan or forbearance, other than specific charges for services or expenses that are incidental to making the loan.

[2] Corps. Code § 25116, 25117, 25118.

[3] Calif. Const. Art. 15.

[4] Id.

[5] Id.

[6] Gov. Code § 5906.

[7] Corps. Code § 28405 and 31410.

[8] Calif. Civil Code § 1917.067.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/16/09 4:29pm
Msg #314660

Re: You'll find this interesting...I did! WOW!

WOW! Thanks John! I really feel bad about this. That's why I asked if anybody else is seeing this.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 12/16/09 4:40pm
Msg #314663

I see those rates on the car title loans that I do. n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/16/09 4:50pm
Msg #314665

Re: I see those rates on the car title loans that I do.

That's what this was, thanks for the acknowledgment Shoshana.

Reply by John Schenk on 12/16/09 4:53pm
Msg #314666

That isn't that surprising then. n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 12/16/09 5:09pm
Msg #314667

Re: I see those rates on the car title loans that I do.

It's very sad. I notarized one once where the family - Mom, Dad and 4 beautiful little girls were living in one room in a Motel 6.

I attempted to do another once where I almost was attacked by the borrower's boyfriend. Luckily I made it out in time.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/16/09 5:22pm
Msg #314669

Re: I see those rates on the car title loans that I do.

you know, at one time in my life I was homeless when it applied to people down in their luck. I recovered but I see the grasping at straws which only leads to the pits that causes me to feel bad. I know that if I had tried to explain to her that was not the route to take to resolve her problem, I would have also had to present her with the solution. I know that we are suppose to serve the public but damn ..............

Reply by John Schenk on 12/16/09 5:52pm
Msg #314674

Folks gotta do what they think is right....

even if it may not be the best route to take. Sure not my job to tell'em. Don't know their situation, and couldn't, and wouldn't, give them my opinion even if I did. Kinda like taking out ARMs. It'd be ridiculous for someone to take one out if they're planning on paying it out for 30 years, IMO, but most of the time, at least in my experience, those folks are planning on getting transferred or buying another home within a year or two so it's really a pretty good deal for them. You just never know so I just keep my big fat nose out of their business and move on through the signing and never think about it again after I drop it to the carrier, and get paid for it of course. LOL

JJ

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/16/09 7:05pm
Msg #314677

Re: Folks gotta do what they think is right....

Amen John....


 
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