Posted by SteveTX on 2/4/09 3:00pm
Msg #276528

First signings

I had my first 4 signings over the last week...thanks to everyone who offered advice when I first joined NR. I messed up 2 of the signings and didn't charge for them. One was an easy correction that I took care of, and the other required one of the borrowers to re-sign with "JR" after his sig. That wasn't on his ID, and he said that he is not a "JR". They had to get another notary to witness because I had appointments that conflicted with the open time for the borrower. The two cost me $200 in lost revenue, but I gained that much in lessons learned. (Hopefully!)

Advice to new people; be very very thorough at your signings!

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/4/09 3:08pm
Msg #276529

Any time there is a discrepancy with the name on the ID and the name on the docs, you should call the title company to see how they want to resolve the situation. Did you contact the title company while still at the appt?

Reply by SteveTX on 2/4/09 3:19pm
Msg #276533

It was a last minute, late Friday night signing and the L/O wasn't available. That's what scared me about doing a late one; I really didn't have anyone to call.

In Texas, they have to sign the way it the signature is shown on their ID. Is it that way everywhere else?

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/4/09 7:21pm
Msg #276554

*In Texas, they have to sign the way it the signature is shown on their ID. Is it that way everywhere else?*

I'd be interested to know where you learned that documents must be signed as is shown on the ID. I'm not picking at you because you are new to the board. I'm curious where this line of thinking came from. I have never seen this as a matter of law or in the Texas notary rules. Don't feel badly because I don't agree with you. Many people here don't.

The way loan documents are drawn to be signed has nothing to do with what is on the ID of the signer. It's got to do with the way property is titled historically. It's confusing to people who are new to the notary world and who have only been involved in loan signings a short while, but it's not confusing if you've been involved in real estate transactions prior to that.

You learn that documents are signed a certain way in order to properly convey title or to allow encumbrances. Only about 50% of the time will the ID match the signature on loan documents in my experience.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/5/09 7:14am
Msg #276582

Steve - my goodness...what I meant to say... =)

I said: Don't feel badly because I don't agree with you. Many people here don't.

I meant: People don't agree with ME on this.

Wasn't trying to be a smart @ss. Was truly curious about your conclusion stated in your previous post about signature matching ID.

I'm always curious who prints/teaches these partial truths and notary myths.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/4/09 9:16pm
Msg #276563

Never call the L/O for this type of thing - he is not authorized to allow changes to docs, nor is he authorized to address the issue of ID and signatures. Always call the party that hired you - the title company or the signing service. The only thing the L/O can do is explain the loan details or other docs to the borrower and tell borrower why the fee for this or that is $XXX.

Reply by janCA on 2/4/09 3:09pm
Msg #276531

He isn't a junior and it's not on his ID and they made him sign that way, and he agreed? I would say that's not your screw-up. I don't know TX notary laws but if it wasn't on his ID, I would not have been able to notarize his signature with Jr.

Reply by LC/AZ on 2/4/09 3:18pm
Msg #276532

Refused a siging last week for the same reason

Jr. on docs, but not on i.d.

Reply by SteveTX on 2/4/09 3:21pm
Msg #276534

Re: Refused a siging last week for the same reason

Oh, and also, I learned the value of Signing Central. The second company had a lot of bad reviews for non-payment...I'll learn to look before I accept! Maybe I didn't really lose anything if they weren't going to pay anyway!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/4/09 3:38pm
Msg #276537

I didn't see that stated in his post. n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/4/09 3:36pm
Msg #276536

What you didn't say was whether or not the "Jr." was on the documents, specifically the vesting on the DOT and the signature lines.

Our first responsibility as a notary, a signing agent, or whatever you want to call yourself going into a signing, is to properly identify the person appearing before you, and to have them properly sign the docs. If there was no "Jr" on the vesting or the signature lines [it should be consistent], I would have been surprised at the request and had a big problem agreeing with a re-sign with Jr added. And I would expect full payment for the first trip. If it *was* on the docs, I would have immediately been on the phone to my client at the table. If I couldn't reach them, I would have adjourned the signing - especially since the borrower said he isn't a "Jr".

I've heard that most fraud happens between family members. For all we know,, in a situation like that, we could have a father or son taking out a loan against the other person's property.
Perhaps unlikely, but it's not our determination to make.

Reply by SteveTX on 2/4/09 3:48pm
Msg #276538

Janet, the JR was on the docs, just not the id. For right now, I guess I call myself "screw-up"!

Reply by davidK/CA on 2/4/09 4:05pm
Msg #276539

What do you mean by "re-sign"? Did the borrower "re-sign" the original documents by just adding a "Jr." to the end of an already existing signature OR did you mean that a whole new set of documents was signed with a new signature containing a "Jr."?

What was the date of your notarization (Ack or Jurat) of Mr. Jr.? Was it the date the documents were "re-signed" or was it backdated to the original date of signing (without the Jr.)?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/5/09 1:53am
Msg #276576

Don't be too hard on yourself. It took some guts to come on here and post about your mistake - and you've taken in everyone's comments and suggestions without whining about someone not being nice enough... That already sets you apart from at least 80% of the new people who come post here.

If you continue in this business, the only thing you can be sure of is that this won't be the last time you run into a situation that makes you scratch your head. As with most things, we don't know what we don't know until we step in it -- or read about someone else's experience. A learning curve is inevitable.

Best of luck to you!

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/4/09 5:51pm
Msg #276548

"I messed up 2 of the signings and didn't charge for them. One was an easy correction that I took care of,"

Forfeiting your payment because you make a mistake is foolish. The trip to fix it should be free, but you still deserve to be paid for the signing.

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/4/09 6:16pm
Msg #276550

Agree n/m

Reply by SteveTX on 2/4/09 7:28pm
Msg #276555

Re: Agree

It probably was foolish not to take some kind of payment, but I just felt really bad, being new, and I didn't want to cause any more problems.

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/4/09 7:52pm
Msg #276557

Re: Agree

How does getting paid for the signing cause any more problems?

You'll QUICKLY learn that signing services, title companies, and lenders make plenty of mistakes of their own. My motto is: whoever makes the mistake is the one who pays to fix it. Fix your own screwups for free, but don't let them bully you into fixing their mistakes for free.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/4/09 7:58pm
Msg #276558

take some kind of payment....

I would think that it is not too late to bill them for your services. Of course, I don't know all the particulars, such as if you already told them it was on you or something to that effect....but, you could say you meant/intended that the return trip was on you.

However it works for you Steve, it is a cheap education and you have realized that there was a lot going on during these 2 signings of which you didn't have enough experience and/or knowledge of how to deal with them to come out on top. Your willingness to do right impresses me, and I'm sure they have similar feelings as well. Also that any criticism you received you took to be constructive, which it was. Praises to you!

I didn't check but have you been advised to read msg. #33325 and its thread? If not, it would be of value to you as many such situations are in that thread, you know, the things that are not common everyday happenings. It helps to plan your responses should "x event transpire" or 'y event presents itself". Even those of us who are seasoned read here because we want to be on top of the game and not get caught off guard by any happening or event that presents itself.

I think you'll be fine....hoping so.

Reply by CT_Notary on 2/4/09 10:35pm
Msg #276570

Re:Why

Borr says he is not a Jr and Jr is not on his ID. On what basis did you identify him as Jr?

You were correct when you notarized him without the Jr. and totally wrong to later notarize with an incorrect name.

You really need to review BASICS before you go out again. If docs are drawn up with an incorrect name, you can not change the name to fit the docs!

Reply by MW/VA on 2/4/09 10:55pm
Msg #276572

This is a business. You may have realized you weren't totally prepared for the issues that came up. You did perform the service & deserve to be paid. We all make mistakes from time to time--the general rule is that we will correct it at our expense IF it was our error, and I will emphasize the "IF". In this case there was a question, and if the title company was not available after hours, you didn't have a lot of options. You might have considered holding onto the docs until you could get it clarified by the tc. Name issues are docs are critical.
IMO experience the "Jr." issue can be a pain--sometimes people are a "Jr." but don't use it & don't have their drivers license reflecting that. No matter what, you've gained some valuable experience. I found that the first 50 signings were a learning curve, and didn't feel more confident until I passed the first 100. Take it slow, be thorough, and you'll be fine.
Always call the title company or signing service with any questions, that's their job.

Reply by SteveTX on 2/5/09 6:27am
Msg #276581

Thanks so much, everyone, for your responses. You've given me a lot of good information, and, just as important to me, some support. I don't know any of you personally, but I value the relationship I have with you here at NR. Thanks!

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/5/09 7:53am
Msg #276585

However....

You will frequently get bad info from TC/SS and don't ever believe an LO... all these folks want is a done deal and they don't care whether YOU have done something wrong to accomplish THEIR goal. It's better to know what you're doing.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/5/09 10:13am
Msg #276604

Re: However....

That's very true, but unless you want to get into UPL you wouldn't make a decision on a name issue.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 2/5/09 10:54am
Msg #276616

Re: However....

I know you didn't mean this, Marilyn - but just to point out to Steve (and other newbies) that it's not UPL to make a firm decision on a name issue that involves ID/notarial certs. Steve made a decision that was his to make as far as the name he decided to notarize.

Every problem has at least one correct, legal solution - and trying to strong-arm both the borrower and the notary into using what amounts to a ficticious name isn't it, in this situation.

Reply by MW/VA on 2/5/09 11:55am
Msg #276626

Re: However....

Thanks for that clarification, Renee. I was referring to names as they appear on the docs, not how we deal with them as notaries. Thanks for clearing that up.