Posted by Sherry_CA on 2/12/09 7:43pm
Msg #277361

Notary fees for loan docs!

Ok guys..what in your opinion is considered low these days for a full set of loan docs?? I am at the point I just don't take the job anymore if its too low. The problem is there are sooo many others who will take it and so that is why they get away with these very low fees to pay us. What do you guys think on this?

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/12/09 7:52pm
Msg #277364

If it's not worth doing for what they offer, don't do it. The cheapie notaries will eventually go broke and be gone.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/12/09 8:44pm
Msg #277366

Honestly? I don't think that any particular number will work for everyone. Every business and situation is different and the threshold for being "too low" has a lot of variables.

I did a refi package recently for $85... but it was, quite literally, down the street from me. I had the docs 48 hours in advance, too. The appointment was totally convenient for me so even at a lower rate, I would have made a profit. Not only that, but the SS is a dream to work with... no faxes, hand holding... not even an invoice did they want from me.

It all depends on the particulars of a specific job for me. And if one NSA needs $155 to make a profit, another one may not. Each of us has different budgets and operating expenses. Anything less than $85 for a loan package? I probably won't ever do it. But I did take $40 on Monday for a simple loan mod... but it was really more general notary work than a loan package. The bank sent the papers to the borrowers who signed everything but the compliance agreement, which is all they needed me for. In fact, the only paper I saw was the compliance agreement and the borrowers paid me directly - I didn't print a thing. I just had to suffer in unfortunate traffic as the result of a sigalert on the I-5 during rush hour... but that was hardly the borrower's fault.

Where I get annoyed is when some notaries who insist that we're ruining the profession when we accept lower fees than they do. Well... so what? We're all business people who are free to make our own agreements with other businesses. We can also say no. I say no quite a lot, but I won't let another notary tell me I *have* to say no because it hurts us all. Those of you upset about the NNA's suggestions (which were crazy) calling them prices fixing yet moaning about how we shouldn't accept less than $125 a job are just as guilty as they are. If I'm offered $85.00 for a job that is easy, close and will make me an easy profit... you bet I'm going to take it! I determine my rates based on MY expenses, not John Doe Notary who has a different business plan and different expenses. None of us have the same expenses. SImilar? Perhaps... but none are exactly the same.

Obviously, the $85 job I took was easy for me. But if I were 10 miles away... it would have been different, and I would asked for more.

Reply by hp/MD on 2/12/09 8:56pm
Msg #277368

Marian, you are soooo right. I accept the $85 signings if they are in my neck of the woods. Yet, I got $100 for an overnight docs for Monday 10 miles away. I wouldn't do that for less than that.

Reply by Sherry_CA on 2/12/09 9:03pm
Msg #277370

I totally agree with you Marian....exactly my point. I just needed to hear it from someone else too. Thanks.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/12/09 10:17pm
Msg #277377

I know that there are some who totally disagree with me, and that's okay. I totally get where they're coming from... but we all have such different needs, and it is impossible to set a minimum rate that would be acceptable for everyone.

Under my "other" hat as a VA... I have a base hourly rate as well as retainer plans that are discounted. There are other VAs who charge $30 less... and there are some who charge $30 more per hour. There are even some ultracheap VAs in other countries that charge what seems like mere pennies. Some of the rates are just crazy low as far as I'm concerned... but I also make it a point to know my competition and how I can set myself apart. I do not, however, deride them for chargins lower fees. That goes for notary work, too. What they charge is really none of my business except for my own knowledge in developing my business.

If one notary near me takes no less than $150... great. If another takes $65... great. None of my business except that it gives me information in how to position myself while still meeting my business goals. I don't think they're hurting our profession at all. Shoot, most people don't even understand our profession...shouldn't we focus on that first? As was mentioned earlier, those who lack a business plan and goals and who do not price their services in accordance, will eventually fade away. Those who can demand the higher rates, I admire... especially the ones that are getting steady business at those rates. But, it's not fair to bully other business people about *their* rates just to make you feel better about yourself.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 2/12/09 8:58pm
Msg #277369

As Marion said, fees will vary based on so many factors that it is hard to always say I charge $, when circumstances may warrant a different fee, under certain circumstances.
Consider it food for thought, if you think you are undercharging, then you probably are!
Fees ARE not, nowadays, necessarily lower, because of anything, such as the economy. (The only thing affecting fees is that certain people are willing to work for those fees). Run your business as you see fit.
If you think you should be getting more, then by all means, ask for it.
It often helps to ask first, what they are expecting to pay, then you can haggle from there.

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 2/12/09 10:48pm
Msg #277382

Fees should be based on your business costs, IMHO

What's fair and reasonable in one area for one person may not be in the same area or in another area for a different person. You have to look at YOUR typical expenses. Gross income from fees minus expenses = net income. Divide the net income by the average number of hours involved to see if you're making more than a greeter at Wal-Mart.
As with any business, you have to take all ongoing expenses into account - phone(s), cell, paper, ink, toner, equipment depreciation, office supplies, gas, vehicle depreciation, cost of replacing or repairing equipment and vehicles, etc.
I know what my costs are and what my net income goal is, and set my fees accordingly. Make a bit on an easier closing, lose a bit on a more complicated one. Since it's impossible to tell in advance which will be easier and which will be a major pain in the you-know-where, a one-fee-fits-all approach averages out the expenses and time involved to keep you on goal over a year's time.

Reply by Barbara___IL on 2/13/09 12:57pm
Msg #277426

Re: Fees should be based on your business costs, IMHO

That's all good advice. If you pay income tax on your earnings, that can add up also. Once you deduct your expenses and taxes, the net profit can look pretty grim at times. The stress can get to you also. This isn't a business for the weak.