Posted by pjc on 2/25/09 8:47pm
Msg #278744

is this back-dating?

SS called to tell me that Title "shredded" the sig. page for the DOT(not the notary page) He then called borrowers and asked them to pull out their copy of that page, sign and date it. (at this time all that I am told is that he has asked the borrowers to pull out the page from their copies).

When I get to the borrowers, they hand me the page, which is signed and dated - the date of the original transaction, not today's date) To further complicated things, the wife signed in a different color of ink than the originals so she crossed it out, initialed it, and resigned in black ink.

Could I be accused of having the borrowers back-date?

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/25/09 8:53pm
Msg #278746

The borrowers don't back date

You're the one who back dates. New signature, new notarization reflecting the date they appeared before you.

In reality, the TC will likely just toss the new notarization and use the original one when they file the deed, assuming they still have it. And there's nothing you can do about it so don't even worry about it. Just do your job properly and include the new notarization when you return the document.

Reply by Pete/MD on 2/25/09 8:53pm
Msg #278747

They can date however they want. You are not backdating unless you are notarizing for the past date.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 2/25/09 9:00pm
Msg #278749

If you fill out a new notary page and put in the past date..then that would be backdating.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/26/09 5:34am
Msg #278764

I'm surprised the TC even involved the notary in the transaction - I would think they would have had borrower sign again, send directly back to TC with a pre-paid shipping label, insert page back into DOT and the notary would never know. Not saying it's right - just that I'm surprised TC didn't handle it that way.

But then again, when you allow borrowers to do things on their own, they end up signing in the wrong color, crossing it out, signing again. At least she initialed her correction!

Reply by Karen Burch on 2/26/09 6:11am
Msg #278766

I got a call yesterday for a loan mod for $25.00. I actually busted out laughing at the lady and she proceeded to tell me "It is only 6 pages". Like that should justify the price. I told her in a nice way that taking this loan mod is not cost effective for me and to please remove me from her list and goodbye. I always wonder what they are making off the deal. I guess I will never know...

Reply by BobbiCT on 2/26/09 6:54am
Msg #278767

Your notarial act ...

For that ONE signature page is the date you take the borrowers' acknowlegement that signing that page is their free act and deed?

The better question: What do you put in your journal that you notarized? A signature page with no document that you ASSUME is being attached to a mortgage that was signed X days ago. And you know this how? You took the word of a signing service subcontractor (who probably hasn't paid you yet) working as a subcontractor for a title insurance company working as a subcontractor for a lender. WHY didn't the title insurance company call you direct; they are insuring the mortgage deed and on the hook for it- not the SS? Very easy to attach that page to a different mortgage deed with different terms (just leaving the "initial here" pages, if any, not initialed because it isn't required by law). SS taking care of "new" signature page; title company doesn't have to know.

Please. I know this sounds harsh in print, but I hope your liability insurance is paid up. Since notarizing a signature page with no document attached is neither an error or an omission, your E&O policy won't cover this.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/26/09 9:28am
Msg #278783

Re: Your notarial act ...

I'm not sure pjc was actually asked to notarize it - her posts did not say anything about re-notarizing.

Reply by pjc on 2/26/09 9:59pm
Msg #278869

thanks to all who responded. No, I was not asked to re-notarize. But now I do understand that it is only me, the notary, who back-date's, not the borrowers.

Reply by BobbiCT on 2/27/09 7:08am
Msg #278872

To clarify the facts then...

Just to get this straight in my mind:

You met with two document signers on (say) Feb. 18, they signed a mortgage deed, showed you proper ID and you completed a separate notarization block page dated Feb. 18.

On Feb. 23 you went back to the same two people, picked up a pre-signed signature page not attached to any document and sent it to the SS because the SS said they needed to attach that signature page signed Feb. 23 to your notarization block signed Feb. 18.

No offense. For me, I am uncomfortable with this. I would want the ENTIRE document, including the "chewed page" and my notarization block page, before I got involved as the "third party" collecting this page to be added to my prior notarization. If the loan defaults or borrowers have a dispute with lender, when their attorney tells his clients' side of the story, I would like a clear record of what that page "replaced", why my Feb. 18 notarization block applies to a page signed Feb. 23, and that I can swear under oath I SAW the entire document, including the "damaged signature page" and they were the EXACT same document signed and notarized on Feb. 18. I would also make sure with the signers that they were assured it was EXACTLY the same document they signed on Feb. 18. AND I would have all these notes in my file, including names, dates and times.

On the flip side: The SS probably woudn't be happy with my request and would call a different NSA and ask them to, "just pick up a signature page and FedEx it to us." No swapping out pages and signatures on a pre-notarized document. If the deal goes south, the NSA may only be a co-defendant for mail fraud. Plaintiff attorneys are mean and take no excuses; they work for the best interests of their clients. It is their job and the good ones do it well.

It is every individual's call as to his/her risk tolerance. Obviously, I hang out with too many attorneys and do not take risks.