Posted by Leon_CO on 1/27/09 9:18am
Msg #275685

Quiz: Notarizing for elderly signers

1) Beforehand, someone has mentioned that your signer is in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease. What should you do?

a) Refuse even to meet the signer.
b) Screen for identity, willingness and basic awareness, as you would for anyone else.
c) Call the doctor for a consultation, then decide how to proceed.

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We had a discussion about this a few weeks ago, and coincidentally this question is one of the questions in the 'Quiz' section of the recent 'Notary Bulletin'.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 1/27/09 10:02am
Msg #275688

B n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 1/27/09 10:19am
Msg #275690

yup n/m

Reply by Shoshana Roller on 1/27/09 10:28am
Msg #275691

I disagree with the answers. First thing I do is ask the person calling me if whether the signer is lucid or not. If the caller honestly answers "sometimes" I know that I can't do it. Maybe the signer is having a "good day" today. But what about tomorrow or the next day? Will he/she remember why she signed that paper giving POA to her child or whomever?
By the way, this is the way I was trained by the NNA when I first became a notary in CA in 2002.
If the caller answers yes, then I will go and screen the person.

Unfortunately there are a lot of close relatives or friends of people in this condition who want to take advantage of them.

JMHO. I am not an attorney.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/27/09 10:55am
Msg #275694

Ask them:
“ Please explain what happened to all the taxpayer bail-out billions so far?”
If they can’t answer they are probably suffering from dementia, or they are US lawmakers. In either case their ‘signature’ on most documents doesn’t actually mean anything.

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 1/27/09 11:23am
Msg #275698

Of course, of course!!

--- I believe this qualifies as the best answer so far. :-)

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 1/27/09 11:49am
Msg #275701

Now, Ed...

...you're going to force me to play the theme song from your TV show again!

Reply by Sharon Taylor on 1/27/09 11:39am
Msg #275699

Did anyone watch Bill Moyers Journal on PBS last week?

It was about the non-accountability and arrogance of the companies that received those bail-out billions. As he said, "I couldn't make this up!" when he showed some quotes from CEOs and management people of those companies. One said in essence that the company was going to sit on the money until they needed it for their own purposes, maybe to buy up failing competitors, and another said the money was going to put the company in a better position in the marketplace.
According to the two guests, the original bail-out bill presented to Congress was 3 pages long. When Congress rejected it as being too vague, the bill was rewritten to say the same thing but in more words. LOL And it was written right into the bill that Congress would have no right to require accountability for who got the money or what it was used for. A very nice present to the finance and banking industries from the outgoing administration is what it was.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/29/09 7:41pm
Msg #275930

Re: Did anyone watch Bill Moyers Journal on PBS last week?

I just caught pieces of it. Thanks for the reminder. I planned to go to the PBS website to watch the whole thing. Although I think watching the whole thing may be bad for my health. It would probably make my blood pressure go up just thinking about that mess...

Reply by MichiganAl on 1/27/09 12:09pm
Msg #275705

Would that be the NNA Notary Bulletin??

If so, we all know the accuracy of their information and opinions.

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/27/09 12:48pm
Msg #275712

Exactly, Alex. n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 1/27/09 12:47pm
Msg #275711

Who cares what the NNA advises?

My unpopular opinion is, and will remain, if I have been advised by the caller that someone is suffering from early dementia or Alzheimer's I am not only possibly wasting my time* trying to second guess a medical professional by wading off into that scenario but I am also likely to cost myself time in the long run for reasons previously stated ad nauseum.

By the way, here is the link if you want to get more answers that may be correct (or not). Your own state or your own attorney is where you get answers, not the NNA or quizzes from that organization.

http://www.nationalnotary.org/news/index.cfm?text=newsnotary&newsid=1630&wt.mc_id=1050&newscat=26

Here's the entire question/answer:

1) Beforehand, someone has mentioned that your signer is in the early stages of Alzheimer’s disease. What should you do?

1. Refuse even to meet the signer.
2. Screen for identity, willingness and basic awareness, as you would for anyone else.
3. Call the doctor for a consultation, then decide how to proceed.

Answer: b. Certain mental disabilities in their early stages, including senile dementia and Alzheimer’s disease, can come and go. An afflicted person may appear normal on one day, and be unable to function on the next. *>>Notaries should approach such individuals as they would any other prospective signers – but be prepared to stop the notarization if any individual fails to respond appropriately.<<

*= Translated "may be a wasted trip".

*>> and << added by me to emphasize that even the NNA sees a wasted trip as a possibility.

Reply by LKT/CA on 1/27/09 2:04pm
Msg #275729

My answer is B. The CA handbook doesn't say I can't notarize signatures for someone with a condition/disease, therefore, they (like anyone else) must fall within the guidelines of a proper notarization per the CA SOS. If they do, then I notarize their signature. By notarizing their signature, I am not challenging any medical diagnosis. What's challenged is someone's ability to fall within the guidelines of my state's rules for a proper notarization.

A person without an Alzheimer's diagnosis can be taken advantage of by their family members. That is why we are called DISINTERESTED third parties. JMHO