Posted by Shoshana Roller on 1/8/09 9:56pm
Msg #273920

RTC

Another notary just told me that if the lender includes more than 1 RTC per person in the package, she just has each borrower sign one and shreds the rest. For the borrower's package she would of course have them each sign 2 completed RTC's.
I have always had the borrower sign however many are in the lender's package and 2 per person in the borrower's package.
I am wondering if I have been doing it wrong all these years.
She said that in 1500+ signings, she has never gotten any feedback that she's doing it wrong.
TIA

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/8/09 10:12pm
Msg #273922

I wouldn't say you're wrong....

As long as each person entitled to rescind gets two copies, how many you send back with the signed package shouldn't matter (absent instructions otherwise) so long as you're sending back a RTC executed by all parties of interest. Again, providing there's no instructions from TC or lender that they're to get back XX number of signed RTC's....JMHO

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/8/09 10:17pm
Msg #273924

Re: I wouldn't say you're wrong....

Out of sheer curiosity, why would a lender/TC need more than one (per party) RTC anyway?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/8/09 10:19pm
Msg #273925

Re: I wouldn't say you're wrong....

I don't think they do, but each lender is different and you can't make a blanket "only one is required" assumption....you just never know about that one is 10,000 - that's why I said "absent instructions"..

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/8/09 10:35pm
Msg #273928

Re: I wouldn't say you're wrong....

Isn't that the truth!

"Not tho' the soldier knew
Someone had blunder'd:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die..."

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 1/8/09 11:42pm
Msg #273938

Re: I wouldn't say you're wrong....

I have had as many as 8 in a loan package for the borrower(s) to sign.
Get them all signed and send them back.

Reply by sue_pa on 1/9/09 8:02am
Msg #273953

Re: I wouldn't say you're wrong....

I agree. I don't want someone in a cubicle w/a check list of docs that were sent out and checking it against the returned docs throwing the loan on the reject pile because there's missing docs. Whatever comes w/the packge gets signed and returned ... even when it's one of my pet peeves ... misscanned docs where they're rescanned and sent two and three times.

Reply by CaliNotary on 1/9/09 1:19pm
Msg #273982

To me it's not a battle worth fighting

It takes the borrower just as long to sign 3 RTCs as it would for me to shred the extra 2 RTCs. If the borrower can sign 60 times throughout a loan package, they can sign 62 times just as easily. In a million years I would never dream of making a unilateral decision to remove something from the loan package, no matter how illogical I think it is. That is simply not our place to do so.

Reply by Tess on 1/9/09 1:48pm
Msg #273994

Re: Ditto! n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/8/09 11:39pm
Msg #273937

Seems like there are enough RTCs in most packages to wallpaper a small room. I return all but the needed '2 per signer' in the hope that they wake up. Hasn't worked yet, but hope springs eternal. Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to let the ink dry. (Groan)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/9/09 1:50am
Msg #273939

I think the critical thing is to make sure to leave two copies per borrower with their copy, per federal requirements. However, a mortgage attorney I know told me that we should not leave any extra unsigned copies with the borrowers, as some are using this as an excuse to get out of loans these days. In fact, there is some law office in the LA area advertising on the radio for people in financial distress to call them. They say they will review loan packages for "Truth in Lending and Real Estate Procedures Act" compliance. It wouldn't surprise me if they pick on something like unsigned RTC copies to help get people out of underwater loans (for a hefty fee, no doubt...)

Sending extras back with the package sounds like a good idea to me, unless I've printed it, in which case, I'll see that everyone gets what they need and no more.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/9/09 4:55am
Msg #273944

Janet, I've heard those commercials, too. In fact I was dumbfounded that one of them outright said over 90% all loans had at least one violation and that they would find it. I thought that was awfully brassy of them to say. I haven't heard that particular commercial for a week or two now, but I've heard others... and they seem to be rather aggressive.

Reply by sue_pa on 1/9/09 7:59am
Msg #273952

...should not leave any extra unsigned copies with the borrowers, as some are using this as an excuse to get out of loans these days....

that makes no sense at all. what about National City mortgages ... they didn't even have a spot for the RTC to be signed. Some WAMUs only had an initial line. Besides, the lender will (hopefully) pull out their signed copy and that point is moot.

We don't have those ads here ... yet

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/9/09 9:18pm
Msg #274062

That was my thought, too, but she said she'd seen it litigated successfully and was quite adamant about it. She also specifically said that it didn't help that the lender had the borrower(s) signature on their copy showing they acknowledged receipt of two copies each on the specified date. (She's been working in mortgage law for over 30 years. I didn't have the time to get into the nitty gritty with her - and the legalities would probably be over my head anyway - so I just took her at her word. For all I know, she could be totally off base.)

I guess the point is that there are some lawyers who will do anything to get a client and try to win a case. However, I agree that there is only so much that we can (and should) do. Worrying about what lenders might have to deal with if they're taken to court is their concern, not ours -- as long as we're following instructions and using common sense.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 1/9/09 5:01am
Msg #273945

Never have I had a lender want more than 1 RTC per borrower. It's my opinion/experience that multiple copies programmed into the lender's pkg is their means of ensuring the borrowers are left their 2 copies each, rather than rely upon anyone else to provide them.

I'm baffled by the notion that a borrower's copy must also be signed to prevent some type of lawsuit? The governing law (TILA) doesn't require a signature on the disclosure, nor any signed proof of delivery, nor does the FDIC model form even have a signature line. In all the 10 or 15,000 loans I did in wholesale, I never had a loan rescind with an RTC signed at the bottom (receipt of copies part) - which illustrates that in all those loans, closers weren't getting borrower's copies signed. Is this something the NSA world has invented for themselves?

If the law says only that the information must be disclosed, and you have a copy (or 3 or 10) of that information proving it WAS disclosed, but minus your signature of receipt - what exactly is it you're going to sue the lender FOR? As most of you know, there are lenders who use RTC forms that don't even have signature lines.

Grant you, I know there's a flood of marketing aimed towards distressed borrowers, and myriad E & O items to pay someone to check for compliance issues - I'm just not seeing the validation for this particular item, but I could certainly be wrong and could certainly learn something I never knew.

Reply by Julie/MI on 1/9/09 7:01am
Msg #273948

to each their own

I only have them sign the one that goes back to the lender.

When one of my personal closings was at a title company, that was the way it was done as well.

The truth is if the mortgagor wants to cancel, they don't HAVE to use the RTC, they can simply cancel on a scrap sheet of paper.

Reply by GA/Atty on 1/9/09 7:05am
Msg #273949

I only send back one per borrower as well. n/m

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 1/9/09 8:31am
Msg #273963

I always send back 2 - funders can be particular so if they don't like way dates look, there are 2 signed copies to choose from. Too many Countrywide closings that went awry because funder would bounce the RTC because borrower's numbers did not look like the date of signing. Also, I worked for years with national lender (still in business) and having extra rtc was not an issue, it was having the rtc not dated propely by the notary that was the issue.

Reply by MichiganAl on 1/9/09 9:00am
Msg #273964

lots of different opinions

Although I don't see a need for signing more than one copy, I don't feel that it's up to me to make that decision. If there are two in the package, I'll have the borrower sign both. If there are six, I'll have them sign all six. Sometimes companies want three or four signed HUDS, it's not my call to contradict that. Sometimes they want two mortgages. I may not see the logic in it, but it's not up to a signing agent to make that decision.

Reply by Les_CO on 1/9/09 9:23am
Msg #273966

Re: lots of different opinions

I agree…I send back what I get…with the exception that many times there is only one RTC in the package….then I always make extra copies for the borrower. And as Sue says (paraphrase) even the four 1003’s and six name affidavits, and all the extra stuff that got scanned in while someone was asleep at the wheel.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/9/09 1:34pm
Msg #273986

Re: lots of different opinions

Ditto that, Al.
Every lender has different requirements.
I just go with the flow and oblige them all.

Reply by LynnNC on 1/9/09 3:32pm
Msg #274005

I seldom see more than 3 copies of the RTC for each signer in the loan package...more often there are not enough. If there are not 3 copies of RTC for each signer in the loan package, I use copies from the borrower package and make more if necessary.

The typical RTC has the borrower sign that they have received two COMPLETED copies, which IMO, means that they have signed and dated them.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/9/09 8:03pm
Msg #274040

My take is that COMPLETED means that the dates are completed, plus all the borrower and property info, as well as who they are to send the RTC to if they rescind. I don't have borrowers sign their copies unless I have specific instructions to do.

Reply by Todd/OH on 1/9/09 4:10pm
Msg #274015

There's a reason

There's a reason for two per borrower - actually three. Each borrower is "supposed" to sign all three as acknowledgment of receipt. One is returned in the package. The other two are left with each borrower - we all know that. They are given two in case one is lost.

Never mind the common sense that if one is lost, both are lost.

Reply by LynnNC on 1/10/09 3:21pm
Msg #274125

Re: There's a reason

I always assumed that the borrower was given two signed copies so that in the event they cancelled, they could mail one and keep one.