Posted by snoopdogMs on 1/1/09 10:45am
Msg #273260

W.W.Y.D.?

I had an e-sign (for a signing co.) on the 29th. The 1st agent was a no show so I told the SS that I did not have an aircard (laptop,yes). Go to McD. We did and could not get on. Went back to their home and after 2 1/2 hours I finally had them sign all the paper docs that would be in the e-sign and called the SS at 10pm and left a message. I proceeded to go to another closing at 10pm. (couple) and I get a call at 10:30 from the owner of the SS. She asked me to go into the Amtrust site after I got home and perform the e-sign. When I told her I could not do that she said that I told her I could. WHAT? NEVER! I told her that I said I could perform e-signs not commit fraud. She said that it would probably be a no go if I did not or the title company would be penalized $250 or $300. I have 2 witnesses (couple) as I hung up in disbelief and told them what she had asked me to do. She then called back at 10:45 and said never mind that it will probably be accepted on paper without penalty because the 1st agent back out. HUH?

Reply by snoopdogMs on 1/1/09 10:46am
Msg #273261

spelling-backed out. n/m

Reply by snoopdogMs on 1/1/09 10:51am
Msg #273262

one more thing

She said that since they had signed on paper, that is why I could go in and sign on the Amtrust site as if I was the borrower.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 1/1/09 10:57am
Msg #273264

Re: one more thing

I would absolutely NOT do that either! They are just trying to save the penalization fee for doing paper-sign instead of e-sign. Heck, they could just go into the Amtrust website and do the e-signing themselves - it amounts to the same thing!

You were 100% right to refuse.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/1/09 11:10am
Msg #273267

Re: one more thing

Wow. That came from the owner of a signing service?

I'd like to know what service it is so that I put them on my "never in million years" list.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/09 11:11am
Msg #273268

Isn't it amazing what some companies will do

and ask to get the job done - no matter WHAT the consequences...

Reply by jba/fl on 1/1/09 7:48pm
Msg #273296

Re: Isn't it amazing what some companies will do

But, who's/whose(?) consequences? We already know....

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/1/09 11:32am
Msg #273271

What I would do is question the whole concept of e-signing!

Is this ripe for fraud--or what!! Gee, why not just call the B's & see if the loan is OK with them, then sit at home & click away. Or, maybe I could take out a loan on my neighbor's home & make sure I get the 'signing', then click away from my home or at McD's? Or...
who dreamt this one up, anyway, and what were they smoking when they did it?

Reply by MW/VA on 1/1/09 11:39am
Msg #273272

Good grief, what a request! That's about like asking you to sign the loan yourself. She obviously doesn't know that they often end up going paper because of gliches in not being able to do it e-sign. I don't think they penalize in those cases. Obviously, you wouldn't commit fraud for them or anyone else. It is amazing what someone would be willing to do to try to save a couple of hundred bucks.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/1/09 11:56am
Msg #273275

Keep in mind that these have a Ltd. POA

for this particular loan transaction only.
That is the premise they were probably using when that request was made.
Not that I agree with them (I don't), but they were likely assuming that the
LPOA covers you as their agent. Not sure, if that is correct and I wouldn't do it myself,
but it with the LPOA the lender or their agent may have the legal okey-dokey to do
what they asked.

Reply by davidK/CA on 1/1/09 12:46pm
Msg #273277

Re: Keep in mind that these have a Ltd. POA

A Limited POA is for the purpose of making MINOR corrections to already signed documents like changing the spelling of the street name and in no way could possibly be considered to be for the purpose of committing FRAUD by executing documents as if you were the borrower.

Signing someones name under a Limited POA is one heck of a lot different than fixing a spelling error. If you have a POA that says effectively "I the Principal grant XXX as my Agent to sign a document for me and make the document legally effective as if I personally signed it myself" that's one thing, but to consider a Ltd. POA equivalent to a "real" POA is absolutely incorrect.

As to AmTrust e-signings specifically, IMHO the whole process sucks from start to finish and this suggestion or request to have the NSA "become" the borrower is just another example of how screwed up the e-signing process really is. Perhaps someday it will work, and work efficiently, but by then we will have jet packs instead of cars and will have people living permanently on Mars.

Reply by Leon_CO on 1/1/09 12:55pm
Msg #273278

The borrower has to consent to signing electronically

One of the purposes of the borrower clicking the "I Consent" button for an eSigning is so that they can verify the way their names are typed on the document, and that the address and other information is correct.


Also, in the 'Borrower Consent' form are the words:

"Do not ask or allow the Closing Agent, any other borrower or any other person to click any of the choice buttons."

No one else can do this for the borrowers.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 1/1/09 12:56pm
Msg #273279

My thinking also David about the POA n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/1/09 2:15pm
Msg #273281

Re: Keep in mind that these have a Ltd. POA

The Limited POA is for typo's only - and specifically names the lender or TC - it does not authorize anyone to sign new docs OR sign the entire package on behalf of the borrower - electronically or otherwise...

Reply by snoopdogMs on 1/1/09 3:30pm
Msg #273286

The question was

Not what you would have done pertaining to the e-sign, but rather what would you do at this point having been asked to do something illegal by a trusted authority in the industry.

Reply by Lee/AR on 1/1/09 3:39pm
Msg #273287

See if they'll put it in writing, like a backdating request. n/m

Reply by snoopdogMs on 1/1/09 3:41pm
Msg #273289

Re: See if they'll put it in writing, like a backdating request.

See if who will put it in writing? I don't think this individual would at this point admit to anything. My word against hers.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/1/09 6:16pm
Msg #273292

That's the point, though...

If she insists that it can be done, then she won't have any problem putting in writing or in an assignment sheet. If she won't do it... you know why. You said that you took the phone call with witnesses in the room, right?

If it doesn't fund and they want to blame you, you simply remind her that you had witnesses in the room when she asked you to commit fraud. Her tune will change.

Reply by Leon_CO on 1/1/09 3:40pm
Msg #273288

Re: The question was

>> what would you do at this point having been asked to do something illegal by a trusted authority in the industry. <<
---------------------------------------------------------

Say 'No.'

P.S. They are not a "trusted authority" if they ask you to do something illegal

Reply by snoopdogMs on 1/1/09 3:49pm
Msg #273290

One solution- get her off the street. n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/2/09 8:11am
Msg #273314

Not all LPOAs are the same

There should have been one in the hard package. Not all are limited to typos/clerical errors.
I have seen some that allow the lender or it's agent to execute any or all docs in certain events. That was the reason for my post.....
Things are changing in the lending arena.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/2/09 9:25am
Msg #273320

Understood, Mist...and LPOA's in e-signing packages

may be different - don't know, never done one - however, that being said...since LPOA's need to be notarized, and the SA is the only one notarizing (unless previously done) then...

"I have seen some that allow the lender or it's agent to execute any or all docs in certain events"

doesn't extend to the NSA conducting the signing....

I, personally, would not want to take it upon myself to sign borrowers' loan docs....JMHO

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/2/09 7:43pm
Msg #273380

Re: Understood, Mist...and LPOA's in e-signing packages

You are right aboot that, Linda.
Most of the time the LPOA I was referring to has been signed BEFORE the loan package, and I also feel the way you do about it: it doesn't extend to us, the loan signing agents.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/2/09 7:44pm
Msg #273381

Opps, Canadian moment-Aboot = About (LOL) n/m

Reply by MichiganAl on 1/1/09 6:53pm
Msg #273295

More proof that e-signings are a complete joke. n/m

Reply by Notary/Guy on 1/2/09 12:02am
Msg #273300

Amtrust Cease & Desist
Posted by NCLisa of NC on 12/6/08 11:04am Msg #271248
I just received this bulletin:

Date:
December 5, 2008

From:
Stewart Legal Services

To:
All Issuing Offices

RE:
AmTrust Bank - OTS Order to Cease and Desist

Dear Associates:

Effective November 19, 2008, the Office of Thrift Supervision ("OTS" entered an Order to Cease and Desist against AmTrust Bank (Order No. CN 08-15) and a like Order against its holding company, AmTrust Financial (Order No. CN 08-16). Pursuant to the Order, AmTrust may not make any new loans or issue new lines of credit for land acquisition or development, or for speculative residential construction. The Order includes other conditions for extensions, refinancings, assumptions or modifications of existing loans.

All policy issuing agents are reminded not to close any transactions involving AmTrust, or any other lender, unless you are in receipt of immediately available funds.

Enforcement orders issued by the OTS against various financial institutions can be viewed on the OTS website by clicking the menu under Supervision and Legal on its home page and then clicking on Enforcement. The FDIC's enforcement orders can also be viewed on its website by clicking on Press on its home page and then clicking on FDIC Enforcement Decisions and Orders. The OTS and/or the FDIC have taken enforcement actions against many lesser known and smaller financial institutions. These sites should be checked as to lenders you are dealing with.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


AmTrust Bank - OTS Order to Cease and Desist (Click to View)http://image.exct.net/lib/feee1078766d0d/d/1/AmTrust%20OTS%20Order.pdf

Reply by Notary/Guy on 1/2/09 12:37am
Msg #273301

Re: W.W.Y.D.? AmTrust Bank

Date: December 5, 2008
From: Stewart Legal Services
To: All Issuing Offices
RE:
AmTrust Bank - OTS Order to Cease and Desist
Dear Associates:

Effective November 19, 2008, the Office of Thrift Supervision ("OTS" entered an Order to Cease and Desist against AmTrust Bank (Order No. CN 08-15) and a like Order against its holding company, AmTrust Financial (Order No. CN 08-16). Pursuant to the Order, AmTrust may not make any new loans or issue new lines of credit for land acquisition or development, or for speculative residential construction. The Order includes other conditions for extensions, refinancings, assumptions or modifications of existing loans.

All policy issuing agents are reminded not to close any transactions involving AmTrust, or any other lender, unless you are in receipt of immediately available funds.

Enforcement orders issued by the OTS against various financial institutions can be viewed on the OTS website by clicking the menu under Supervision and Legal on its home page and then clicking on Enforcement. The FDIC's enforcement orders can also be viewed on its website by clicking on Press on its home page and then clicking on FDIC Enforcement Decisions and Orders. The OTS and/or the FDIC have taken enforcement actions against many lesser known and smaller financial institutions. These sites should be checked as to lenders you are dealing with.

Reply by Notary/Guy on 1/2/09 12:37am
Msg #273302

Weak Reserves Lead to Cease-and-Desist at AmTrust
By DIANA GOLOBAY
November 25, 2008

ADVERTISEMENTS

(Update 1 reflects a media statement from AmTrust.)

The Office of Thrift Supervision has issued a cease-and-desist order against Cleveland-based AmTrust Financial Corp. (AFNL: 0.00 N/A) and AmTrust Bank, one of the nation’s largest mortgage originators. The order prohibits the bank from making any new loans or issuing new lines of credit for speculative residential construction, land acquisition or development. The bank has also been restricted from granting any new reduced- or no-documentation loans, but it may continue extending, refinancing or modifying existing loans so long as these actions don’t require granting new funds.

AmTrust ranked as the nation’s 20th-largest residential mortgage originator during 2007, according to industry publication Inside Mortgage Finance.

The action is based on an August examination of the bank through which the OTS discovered “unsafe and unsound banking practices, including operating with an unsafe level of adversely classified assets relative to existing core capital,” according the order dated Nov. 19. So-called unsafe levels of capital led to the requirement that the bank maintain a core capital ratio of at least 7 percent and a total risk-based capital ratio of at least 12 percent beginning Dec. 31.

According to bank officials, bad loans prompted the OTS action. “It’s all about capital,” spokeswoman Donna Winfield told Crain’s Cleveland Business. “Our liquidity has never been stronger.”

The bank will, however, cooperate with the order and its stipulations. “We are working to implement a sound going-forward business plan to strengthen the bank’s capital ratios and increase our earnings potential,” Winfield told HousingWire. “This plan includes efforts to raise additional capital from external sources as well as conserve capital by carefully managing our business, which unfortunately will include some reductions-in-force.”

AmTrust by Sunday must have a revised business plan to include defined capital preservation strategies, limits on high-risk lending practices, detailed strategies to improve and sustain earnings and to adjust earnings forecasts based on operating results, economic conditions and credit quality inherent in the loan portfolio. The new plan must also include detailed quarterly balance sheets and income statements for a rolling three-year period beginning Jan. 1, 2009. AmTrust has been ordered to implement the new business plan within 10 days of approval from an OTS regional director.

The bank will also face scrutiny of its projected operating results compared with actual quarterly results. The order requires the bank’s board of directors to “determine any material deviations” and report them to the regional director within 30 days of the quarter’s close.

Reply by sue_pa on 1/2/09 7:34am
Msg #273308

WHAT IN THE WORLD

do AmTrust land acquisition loans have to do with the request made in this thread?

He said/she said but I'd consider telling the title company owner ... although the ss lady will say that you misunderstood.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 1/2/09 7:44am
Msg #273310

Re: WHAT IN THE WORLD

The owner did not stutter or mince words. I would sign an affidavit if it came down to it. The whole purpose of the 10:30 call was to ask me to go to the site and execute the closing with the excuse that the papers were signed by the borrowers and my actions would be justified.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 1/2/09 7:56am
Msg #273312

Should have said agree with Sue

All I will say is that this incident will not be swept under the rug.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 1/2/09 8:08am
Msg #273313

Marilyn keep us in the loop

with the resolution of this incident.
Enquiring minds want to know!

Reply by snoopdogMs on 1/2/09 8:30am
Msg #273316

Re: Marilyn keep us in the loop

Having already made a decision about what I needed to do before I posted on NR.,, I posed the question to see how others might handle this blatant act of contributing to fraud. I can't say what I will do as the owner probably reads this forum and I cannot post her name for legal reasons. Do we ignore backdating requests and such as what was asked of me? I think not.