Posted by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 12:35pm
Msg #296866

Days that make ya just wanna cry..

9 am reverse mortgage signing - hour work on docs printing and setup and getting corrective docs last night...hour travel each way (97 miles rt) and two hours at the table - 80% through the package and borrower says "we have a problem....we surveyed out 2 acres for future sale and I don't want that included in this mortgage"....can't get title on phone (too early) - she calls her contact, the CPA, explains..he says HALT...don't sign any more, we'll have to redraw (which I don't think they do but I guess he's in charge)...

5 hours invested in this signing and I'm told no pay...well, I sent an invoice to the company for 50% (which is peanuts) along with a copy of the page in their very own contract that says "50% fee for no-signs"....

Sigh

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 12:39pm
Msg #296868

Forgot to add...(yes I'm still crying..<G>)

She'd already read the desciption in the Warranty Deed (signed first) AND in the title commitment (signed about 20 pages down)....not a peep....80% through the package the light bulb comes on...grr

Reply by Joanne Rezzino on 7/22/09 12:41pm
Msg #296869

Re: Forgot to add...(yes I'm still crying..<G>)

I've been there and done that. It's the most annoying. I hate when loan officers, no matter what type of closing, screw up on final docs and act as if it's no big deal. Well, it is a big deal to the signing agent who spends as much time on the closing as you did. I'm sorry it had to happen and so early in the day for you. Maybe an ice cold beer and some sun will make your day a little better.....

Reply by jojo_MN on 7/22/09 12:46pm
Msg #296872

Not loan officewr's fault. They dont see final docs. It's

the title company's or lender's processor.

Reply by jojo_MN on 7/22/09 12:49pm
Msg #296873

Re: Not loan officer's fault. Fingers hitting extra keys n/m

Reply by Joanne Rezzino on 7/22/09 12:52pm
Msg #296875

Re: Not loan officewr's fault. They dont see final docs. It's

But loan officers do see final docs. I don't know how many closings I've been at where there are questions at the table and the borrower calls their loan officer and they have the paperwork in front of them.... apparently they do get final docs.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 12:56pm
Msg #296877

Joanne, they may get final HUD and TIL but not the

final lender docs - at least not in my experience - and they have no need for them - their only interest at that point is the numbers...

This is the second time they've made this same mistake....and her original LO refused a copy of the new survey that was done just this past June..said "they don't need it"..

Reply by jojo_MN on 7/22/09 1:02pm
Msg #296879

Re: Joanne, they may get final HUD and TIL but not the

In that particular case, yes, it is his fault. Normally, the l.o. doesn't get them, they go to the processor of either the lender or title company.

Reply by Teresa Rowe on 7/22/09 2:54pm
Msg #296903

Re: Forgot to add...(yes I'm still crying..<G>)

I would hit them for the full fee, for all your time and trouble invested.

Reply by jojo_MN on 7/22/09 12:42pm
Msg #296870

I'd charge FULL pay. You printed, drove, spent time there n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 12:44pm
Msg #296871

Believe me, I thought about the full pay...BUT

I signed the page that states "50% pay.."...so I'll stick to it..as much as I feel I should get full pay..

Reply by Les_CO on 7/22/09 2:05pm
Msg #296889

Re: Believe me, I thought about the full pay...BUT

SORRY!....But “No whining allowed!”
If you (an experienced NSA) agreed to half, and if you get half....fair enough! ( I'm with you! 'Full pay' seems applicable in this case, and I think I'd ask for it, politely, with an explanation.... who knows? There may be some understanding TC's out there somewhere....??)

Thanks for the post! Another learning experience for us all!

Reply by MW/VA on 7/22/09 12:55pm
Msg #296876

Sorry to hear it was one of those PIA's. I have to step back every now & then & remind myself that this is just like any job/profession--there are days that are so difficult I want to quit. I know we've all had days like that.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 7/22/09 2:02pm
Msg #296887

Is this the first the owners let them know the 2 acres weren't included?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 2:04pm
Msg #296888

Nope..according to her she told them from the get-go n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 2:06pm
Msg #296891

It's a simple fix - a revised Schedule A for the

Warranty Deed and both mortgages...easy peezy....but she stopped the signing until they fix it....this is the second time they got it wrong (from what she told me)..

Reply by PAW on 7/23/09 8:59am
Msg #297021

May not be that simple

If the appraisal is based on the survey, which includes the "extra" parcels, then the appraisal may need to be re-evaluated which, in turn, may make the loan structure altogether different.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/23/09 9:19am
Msg #297032

Those were my thoughts, also. n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/23/09 10:03am
Msg #297044

Re: May not be that simple - understood Paul

But according to the borrower (AND that CPA) the appraisal was done on the 5.5 acres only - not on the 2 that were parceled out - unless the appraiser didn't make that clear in his report.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 7/22/09 2:15pm
Msg #296892

Could be complicated, but COULD also be simple/easy

WAY beyond the scope of our normal day-to-day, no debate about it, but just for those reading who might find themselves in a similar situation (and ironic as it seems, I also just had this happen):

If the legal description happens to be IN the pkg (and so often it's not), and it's incorrect according to the borrower (how would we know?), and you can't reach anyone at the TC, and there's a rescission period, I would (and have) still complete the signing.

It could be that the wrong legal was sent, and that's an easy fix. It could be that the borrower is wrong and doesn't have a complete understanding of the situation - another easy fix (but for someone else). If there's a rescission period, the borrower can still retain control over the legal being corrected or the situation explained.

In this particular situation, I'd bet dimes to donuts that this borrower had the 2 acres surveyed, but did NOT obtain a separate parcel number from the taxing authority, preventing the record from being changed to part out the 2 acres as a separate parcel. That would explain why the legal pulls up the 'whole 9 yards' together.

That was the situation I had recently - the borrower INSISTED he'd had the property split and that he'd obtained a parcel number (or PIN, or whatever you want to call it). Unfortunately, he was wrong, all the land was under ONE parcel number - he ended up keeping the loan encumbering the whole thing and will follow-through on splitting off the 'extra' lot after.

If you've followed this all the way to here, you might understand enough to get a cheap laugh out of this - I called T/C from the table, the borrower called his L.O. The L.O. said "just strike through the parcel (metes and bounds legal, too!) that you don't want encumbered, and put your initials next to it and write "exclude" next to it." OMG ...that's why T/C's do some things and L.O.'s do OTHER things!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 2:21pm
Msg #296893

Re: Could be complicated, but COULD also be simple/easy

"The L.O. said "just strike through the parcel (metes and bounds legal, too!) that you don't want encumbered, and put your initials next to it and write "exclude" next to it." OMG ...that's why T/C's do some things and L.O.'s do OTHER things!"

Too bizarre!! LOL...

I'm gonna watch this....it gets better....

I told her she had the 3 days to straighten it out...she wasn't having any of it....on the advice of this CPA she halted everything and he told her not to allow me to take the original signed docs with me....when I insisted I had to she started to call her attorney (near tears I might add)...so I left them with her - she's sitting on two original AND NOTARIZED mortgages that can be recorded and this loan can fund.

If I see my mortgages recorded I'm going to be billing for the final part of my fee - all she has to do is finish signing and overnight the docs to the title company and she has a loan at half price..

OOoohhhh...now I'm smokin'!!!

Reply by Calnotary on 7/22/09 2:26pm
Msg #296894

Re: Could be complicated, but COULD also be simple/easy

On the last loan that the borrower changed her mind and wanted to keep the whole package signed, I told her that she can't keep the signed docs if she doesn't wanted to proceed with the loan. She insisted and I told her that I will have to void my notarizations, which I did, she kept the signed docs and I destroyed all notarized docs. I got paid full fee and everybody was happy.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 2:33pm
Msg #296896

I never gave it a thought...I should have done that n/m

Reply by PAW on 7/23/09 9:03am
Msg #297023

Re: Could be complicated, but COULD also be simple/easy

Why void your notarizations? They were valid regardless of the validity of the document. All that you did was to notarize the signatures, not the document, so there was no harm, that I can see, in the borrower keeping the signed docs with the notarized signatures.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/23/09 10:08am
Msg #297047

Re: Could be complicated, but COULD also be simple/easy

True Paul..but if everything got ironed out she could have finished signing the rest of the docs last night, overnighted them to title and they now have two recordable mortgages and a good fundable loan - for half the agreed fee. That's my point on that issue - I know I didn't do anything wrong as they were good notarizations...

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/22/09 5:55pm
Msg #296944

Re: Could be complicated, but COULD also be simple/easy

<<<In this particular situation, I'd bet dimes to donuts that this borrower had the 2 acres surveyed, but did NOT obtain a separate parcel number from the taxing authority, preventing the record from being changed to part out the 2 acres as a separate parcel. That would explain why the legal pulls up the 'whole 9 yards' together.>>>

That was my thought too, particularly because that's [sort of opposite of] my personal situation. I own the Lot next to my house that has a separate APN (in CA it's called assessor's parcel number) and even though ten feet of my home encroaches on the separate parcel, the Lot is never included in the refi.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 7/22/09 6:55pm
Msg #296952

Re: Could be complicated, but COULD also be simple/easy

"The L.O. said "just strike through the parcel (metes and bounds legal, too!) that you don't want encumbered, and put your initials next to it and write "exclude" next to it."

And while you're at it, why not just change the metes and bounds so you can grab some of your neighbor's property? If you can exclude some of yours that easily, why can't you include some of theirs?

Reply by ME/NJ on 7/22/09 3:12pm
Msg #296906

Will not do RMs anymore.. time and money

Avg table time is 2-3 hours and the pay just stinks. I've only had 2 RMs in 5 years take and hour or less. Last one I did was a year ago and the only reason I did it was around the block and knew he had his wits. (my one of 2 hour or less signings. )

This is a RM dream area..

Compainies ask all the time and I say I can, but I wont.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/22/09 5:41pm
Msg #296940

Re: Will not do RMs anymore.. time and money

<<<Avg table time is 2-3 hours and the pay just stinks.>>>

Really? I got $175 for the last RM I did. I TELL people or companies what I CHARGE....they either take it or leave it and I have no problems with them leaving it. It's really that simple. Besides, I like Seniors and enjoy spending time with them.

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 7/22/09 3:58pm
Msg #296918

LInda - we would have paid you full fee - especially with all the time invested. I would have worked out something with the title co when it becomes a resign, and if doesn't - no big deal. I am so sorry that you did all the work for very little.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 4:03pm
Msg #296919

Thank you - I appreciate that..:) n/m

Reply by GA/Atty on 7/22/09 4:52pm
Msg #296925

When the legal description includes property that the

borrower does not want to encumber, I usually suggest that the borrower go forward and sign everything, but instruct me not to return the package until the title company sends a corrected legal description.

Then you don't have to make another trip (because docs are all signed already). It has happened to me 3 or 4 times (including twice to the same borrower about a year apart), and each time this solution has worked.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/22/09 5:30pm
Msg #296936

Believe me....I tried....this CPA she talked to

was adamant that she stop signing immediately...and she did...I couldn't get her to finish signing nor could I convince her I needed to take that package with me.

Reply by BobbiCT on 7/23/09 7:08am
Msg #297009

Tax and Subdivision issues ...

Without knowing the particulars, it is quite possible ...

1. May be expensive tax consequences and legal fees (plus new appraisal for lender proving value still in "residence" after 2-acres carved out) if she goes thru with reverse mortgage on whole property and then tries a carve-out to sell two acres.

2. Having it "surveyed" does not mean that the owner went thru the entire legal process to have a saleable 2-acre lot. Saw this alot in the old days ... and even today. Owner pays for surveyor to carve out X acres from residence and prepare a map of same, which surveyor does and collects nice fee for it (job surveyor was hired to do). Owner does NOT think to ASK FIRST with Local officials to see if New Lot needs "subdivision" approval (property was already divided once before), which sends one thru the Planning & Zoning, Inland Wetlands, building and other approval processes (set backs for buildings, septic, water, frontage requirements) before New lot = "approved building lot."

I think the CPA was right to stop ... owners need to re-think priorities: reverse mortgage on entire property and leave it "as is" or continue with subdivision. Possibility they didn't realize it would be more cost effective to get a "regular" mortgage on the entire property (for costs of getting New Lot approved to saleable point) and then a partial release of mortgage when it is sold. WAY LESS EXPENSIVE than trying to do this with a reverse mortgage. Reverse mortgage LO, if knew of borrower's plans, did borrower No favors.