Posted by Riley/FL on 7/13/09 12:20pm
Msg #295659

Has anyone ever seen..

an Estimated Closing Statement used with a HUD certification addendum attached? The SS says this IS the HUD. Makes me uneasy, I have to collect $4000 from the BO. Input, please.

Reply by PAW on 7/13/09 12:30pm
Msg #295662

Happens all the time, especially with CA based companies. CA is an escrow funding state, so an estimated closing statement is typically provided. Unfortunately, Florida is a table funding state and final HUDs are the norm.

Just to note, that even in FL, it is still possible to adjust fees on the HUD post-signing, though rarely done without a redraw of documents..

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/13/09 12:39pm
Msg #295664

Thanks. Signing the estimate as well as the HUD addendum without a HUD is the norm?

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/13/09 12:42pm
Msg #295665

Riley - I understand what you are saying, but

don't know what to tell you.

The addendum is like the signature page so who knows what could be attached post signing...is that your concern?

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/13/09 12:53pm
Msg #295670

yes, that's my concern

but not my job, I know.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/13/09 1:03pm
Msg #295672

Re: yes, that's my concern

It just doesn't seem right to me. I'm sure the SS and TC would just like me to bury it in the 239 page closing, I think it's deceiving.

Reply by PAW on 7/13/09 1:02pm
Msg #295671

Re: Riley - I understand what you are saying, but

The "addendum" I think that Riley/FL is referring to isn't the signature page for the HUD, but an FHA/VA statement about funds (other loans or fees specified in the sales contract) as follows:

I certify that I have no knowledge of any loans that have been or will be made to me (us) or loans that have been or will be assumed by me (us) for purposes of financing this transaction, other than those described in the sales contract dated _________________ (including addenda). I certify that I(we) have not been paid or reimbursed for any of the cash downpayment. I certify that I (we) have not and will not receive any payment or reimbursement for any of my (our) closing costs which have not been previously disclosed in the sales contract (including addenda) and/or my application for mortgage insurance submitted to my (our) mortgage lender.

It's really not a part and parcel to the HUD until the HUD is actually created. So signing the certification statement has no bearing on the estimated closing cost statement, but becomes a part of the HUD post closing.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/13/09 1:06pm
Msg #295673

Re: Riley - I understand what you are saying, but

"I have carefully reveiwed the HUD- 1 statement and to the best of my knowledge....."
"I further certify that I have received a copy of the HUD-1 Settlement Statement."

Reply by PAW on 7/13/09 1:17pm
Msg #295676

Re: Riley - I understand what you are saying, but

Alrighty then... different addendum.

That statement usually appears on the first or second page the HUD-1. Sometimes, with complicated signatures (e.g. signing as a trustee) or with more fees, a third page is created. The third page is usually the signature page along with the breakdown of fees that may have been summarized on page two and any overflow of fees that should have shown up on page two. Without a HUD-1, pages 1 and 2, how can there be a 'third page' to the document?

I would have difficulty offering a signature page to a signer of an incomplete document too.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/13/09 1:44pm
Msg #295686

It ain't right. n/m

Reply by NCLisa on 7/13/09 1:48pm
Msg #295687

An estimated closing statement is just that, an estimate of the closing costs. In an escrow state, the EO tends to overcalculate certain fees so the Borrower/buyer almost always gets funds back the day of disbursement. There is also a chance that the actual funding or recording may happen on a different day than anticipated due to other conditions needing to being met.

The HUD cert is usually a lender doc, while the Est closing statement is a TC doc that is prepared with lender approval. The est closing statement serves the same purpose as a HUD in an escrow state. A final hud is sent to all parties after recording signed only by the EO.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/13/09 1:58pm
Msg #295691

Yes, I realize. But this doc is in the package and I don't want to hand them an incomplete doc to sign. I'll have them sign the estimated closing statement but not a certification of receipt to something they don't have.

Reply by CH2inCA on 7/13/09 2:04pm
Msg #295692

Is it possible you're just missing some pages? Is there someone you can call to ask if maybe they mistakenly left them out?

Reply by sue_pa on 7/13/09 2:07pm
Msg #295694

there is nothing "missing" per se. In CA they don't prepare a settlement sheet for closing. In Florida, they do.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/13/09 2:13pm
Msg #295698

There's 239 pages of docs, I hope there's nothing missing. I called the Title Co and left a message. As for the SS, I emailed them but I doubt they even look at the docs.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 7/13/09 2:52pm
Msg #295705

239 pages!!! Have Mercy!!! n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/14/09 2:30am
Msg #295763

In the vast majority of refi signings I've done where the escrow is handled by a CA based company, there usually is only an Estimated Settlement Statement and no formal HUD. (Purchases, on the other hand, will have a HUD-1, with buyer and seller information.) It seems they are used virtually interchangeably here. When I did my own refinance, I never received a formal "HUD". So I have no problem having people sign that form, as long as they've received their Estimated Settlement Statement. However, I'm here in CA, an escrow state, and I can't speak to what the requirements would be elsewhere, naturally.

Reply by sue_pa on 7/13/09 2:06pm
Msg #295693

I've seen them and have never understood their purpose, except in the escrow funding states. Why in the world do they prepare this stupid form when sending it to a state where the final HUD is required at closing? I've seen them with "escrow pads" close to $1000 !!!! What is going to change when the numbers are to be final in table funding states? I personally would never sign one of these ... they'd have my final numbers or the closing wouldn't happen. Just because that's what CA uses doesn't mean they should use it in states where closings are conducted in a different way. The same with that stupid info sheet ... TOTALLY useless in PA to "clear judgments".

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/13/09 2:22pm
Msg #295702

SS just called

Said he spoke to the title co and the Estimate IS the HUD, that's what I'm to tell them about the doc IF they ask. I was then reminded that I am not to comment or give any advice etc..
So that's that.
In my world, an estimate is sooo not a final statement. Let's just hope someone picks up on it at the table.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/13/09 5:03pm
Msg #295722

Re: SS just called

You cannot give advice, that is so true. However the document is titled an estimated settlement statement, so when presenting the doc you can say this is the ESTIMATED settlement statement - with the emphasis on estimated. If borrowers ask what it means, refer them to their loan officer or title company.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/13/09 7:37pm
Msg #295739

Re: SS just called

I see the "Estimated Settlement Statement" all the time. This is what CA uses. There is usually no traditional HUD like we're familiar with.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 7/14/09 5:25am
Msg #295766

I don't see what the concern is ...

The Final Hud can be corrected before funding just as easily as the Estimate, should there be something in error.

If one of the entities was going to do something fraudulent with the figures, I don't think it would make a difference to them if it was after an Estimate was signed or a final Hud was signed.

In this instance in particular, where the borrower is bringing cash to close, then he ultimately has absolute control over any increases to fees - nobody is going to be paying FOR him, he'd have to ante up the increase. The ball is in his court.

Reply by janCA on 7/14/09 8:44am
Msg #295782

Re: I don't see what the concern is ...

What I have seen, as of late, is both an estimated and a HUD is included in the package. I haven't seen just an estimated for quite some time.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/15/09 12:50am
Msg #295927

Re: I don't see what the concern is ...

That will depend on who is doing the escrow. They each have their own processes.