Posted by kathy/ca on 7/21/09 10:18am
Msg #296694

In an earlier thread some say they print FULL name on notar

cert, some say they print just the name that is on the docs and that either way it seems there is no problem to record. Has anyone had a problem either way?

Example: On ID, John James Jones
On signature line of docs, John J. Jones

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/21/09 10:25am
Msg #296696

If John James Jones is on ID and John J Jones is on docs, then by the ID I'm satisfied that John James Jones is John J Jones and in my cert I put the person who signed the docs - John J Jones...

If the ID is John James Jones and the docs say JohnN J Jones - confirm the extra "N" is a typo and proceed as in paragraph one.

Kathy..you really need to let this go...you're going to drive yourself nuts over this...

Reply by kathy/ca on 7/21/09 10:35am
Msg #296700

Ha ha, I am not stressing over it anymore, but someone

on the earlier thread started taking it in a different direction and got on the subject of how they fill the name out on the notary certificate and it got me thinking that everyone seems to do it a different way. I do it like you do Linda, I insert the name of the person who signed the docs.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/21/09 10:52am
Msg #296704

Re: Ha ha, I am not stressing over it anymore, but someone

<<<...on the earlier thread started taking it in a different direction and got on the subject ....>>>

Nope, same direction and same subject as your inquiry below.

From msg. 296558 <<<notarial certificate" (2 T's) but the printed name of the documents has one "T" and that is my concern.>>>

Moral to the story (my examples in relation to your specific concern): More is better on the notary cert than the docs, whether an extra letter or the full middle name. Simple - not quantum mechanics.

And yes, preprinted names on docs and notary certs can match.

Reply by janCA on 7/21/09 11:55am
Msg #296711

I disagree.

And I'm not saying you are right or wrong, Lisa. The rule of thumb when ID'ing someone is more not less on the ID presented not on the cert itself. As in your example, Minnie Elizabeth Mouse on the docs. Cert HAS to state Minnie Elizabeth Mouse, not Minnie E. Mouse. But if docs say Minnie E. Mouse and ID states Minnie Elizabeth Mouse, cert CAN state Minnie E. Mouse. I've just not heard it done your way, Lisa, and I am surprised you haven't had problems with that, as I always thought the written signature and the cert had to match because that's who you are ID'ing, but one always learns something new on this board.

Reply by kathy/ca on 7/21/09 12:02pm
Msg #296712

Same here JanCA! n/m

Reply by Shoshana Roller on 7/21/09 12:12pm
Msg #296714

I agree with you Jan.

I always have them sign they way they sign the document because that also has to be the way the name appears on the document. That's always the way I complete the cert. Never a problem in 7 years in this biz.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/21/09 4:44pm
Msg #296773

Re: I disagree.

<<<The rule of thumb when ID'ing someone is more not less on the ID presented not on the cert itself.>>>

The first part of your sentence is true. The last five words are not. Nowhere in the handbook does it state that the cert cannot match the ID.

<<<But if docs say Minnie E. Mouse and ID states Minnie Elizabeth Mouse, cert CAN state Minnie E. Mouse.>>>

Agreed.... and I believe I said that. Not sure why you're belaboring this point as it was never the issue.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/21/09 11:38pm
Msg #296802

Re: I disagree.

"The first part of your sentence is true. The last five words are not."

That's your opinion and interpretation only, which you're entitled to. I'm with those who have my cert. match the docs.

"Nowhere in the handbook does it state that the cert cannot match the ID."

True, but that doesn't mean that it should. Like Jan, I'm not saying you're wrong, I've just never heard of it done that way, either. And if the purpose is to ensure that the person named on the documents IS the person who signed it, I don't see a need to add any more than what is on the document. I'd rather see them match up. Having MORE on the certificate seems to me just a potential complication. Again, jmo.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/21/09 12:09pm
Msg #296713

I tell the borrower to sign as his/her name appears in the document. I then insert in the Notarial Certificate (if necessary) the name as signed. One doc may have middle initial, and another not. One may have full middle name, another not. If ID has full middle name, but docs only middle initial, (or NMI) I put the name in the Notarial Certificate “as signed”.

Reply by PAW on 7/21/09 12:15pm
Msg #296715

I do the same with one exception. If the docs say John Smith and the ID says John Smith Jr., then I include the suffix. If the docs say John Q. Public and the ID says John Quinton Public III, I'll use the name as signed, plus the suffix. I.e., John Q. Public III.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/21/09 5:20pm
Msg #296778

<<<I do the same with one exception. If the docs say John Smith and the ID says John Smith Jr., then I include the suffix. If the docs say John Q. Public and the ID says John Quinton Public III, I'll use the name as signed, plus the suffix. I.e., John Q. Public III.>>>

PAW are the only one that GOT IT!!! I think it is very wise of you to include the suffixes (more is better to help curtail fraud...EXACTLY my point!). 1st thread there was concern on Kathy's part as the borrower sometimes uses name with one T and sometimes uses name with two T's and loan docs have one T, what should she put in the notary cert. My point was if ID has the two T's, put TWO T's in notary cert. MORE IS BETTER in THAT case, whether it's just an inital or putting the full middle name.

If preprinted notary certs are CA compliant and only have borrower's middle initial or no initial at all, I will complete the preprinted certs as they are. I don't change them. If I add loose certs because they are not CA compliant AND if borrower has a very common name, i.e. Mary A. Smith, I will put full middle name from ID, i.e. Mary Aphrodite Smith. Never had a problem and Linda H is absolutely right (msg. 296734) .....notarial law is our problem and our domain, and does not conflict with CA SOS rules nor does not conflict with the TC or lender.

Reply by kathy/ca on 7/21/09 12:17pm
Msg #296716

Precisely why I reposted. IMO, the earlier thread did go in

a different direction when LKT said she filled out the notary certificate with what in on ID (or words to that effect) and since I dont do it that way and dont know other notaries who do, I thought it was worth opening the subject for other opinions. I am not saying either way is right or wrong. I have never been called out on filling out the certificate with the name signed which is not necessarily the entire name on ID.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/21/09 12:27pm
Msg #296717

Re: Precisely why I reposted. IMO, the earlier thread did go in

This seems to be beating a dead horse. The tc will print the names of the borrowers in the notarial certificate the same as it is on the docs. Again, my role as notary is to be satisfied that they are who they say they are. So John Jimmy Jones (on ID) is John J. Jones on docs. Any variation in the name is covered on the Name/Signature Affidavit. I make sure the full name (as it appears on D/L in VA) is listed on that form. I always use the name on the docs as the name I am notarizing.

Reply by sue_pa on 7/21/09 1:18pm
Msg #296728

I am only commenting on loan documents ... I have NEVER seen closing instructions that say "more is okay .... less is not". I have only ever seen ... and I'm guessing it's in 99.99% of the closing instructions out there that it says ... sign exactly as typed.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/21/09 1:24pm
Msg #296734

'"I have NEVER seen closing instructions that say "more is okay .... less is not""

Because they don't get into notarial law and procedure, as well they shouldn't - they're only concerned that the docs are signed properly - notary law and procedure is our problem, not the lender's.

Reply by LKT/CA on 7/21/09 6:27pm
Msg #296787

<<<and I'm guessing it's in 99.99% of the closing instructions out there that it says ... sign exactly as typed.>>>

Agreed.....but what goes in the notary cert is the issue, not how the borrowers sign their name.

Reply by sue_pa on 7/22/09 7:36am
Msg #296816

maybe I don't get it ...maybe it's a difference in interpretation ... maybe different states ... maybe all of us are reading too much into this and our respective SOS employees are sitting there snickering ... maybe the SOS compliance attorneys are reading this and gathering evidence to nab us ....

I notarize the name as signed ... what's on the id isn't what I notarize ... what's on the typed line isn't what I notarize (although with loan docs what's typed on the line is how I "make" them sign.