Posted by tonya/AL on 7/10/09 11:28pm
Msg #295410

Journal

I have a question and I'm not sure what keywords to use in the orange button.

I want to begin asking my borrowers for their thumbprints for my journal, for the obvious reasons. I know if they refuse that I have to accept that.
But by opening my journal like this, am I not also allowing critical personal information of previous customers to be viewed? OR do I use one whole page for EACH assignment so that they never see the previous signors before them? I know Alabama does not "require" thumbprints, but in today's world of ID fraud I want to protect myself as much as I can.

I hope I'm not rambling too much (it's past my bedtime); but I would really appreciate any guidance and suggestions of how to handle this. OR if someone could suggest the right "search words" that would point me in the right direction.

TIA!!

Reply by CH2inCA on 7/10/09 11:37pm
Msg #295414

Tonya,
I had the same concern; although you'd think that the signing and fingerprinting for their own would be enough for the signer to concentrate on and unless they have a photographic memory the information shouldn't be of much use to them.

BUT, even tho I think this is overkill. I've bought the larger postit notes, I have a pad of page size that I've cut and just place the sticky part on the information above the current signers, it's clean, reuseable, and it also serves as a marker in my journal and I can just flip it open to the correct page!!

Just a suggestion that puts ME more at ease.

Reply by tonya/AL on 7/10/09 11:50pm
Msg #295419

Thank you for that suggestion. I will see how that works out.

Reply by CH2inCA on 7/10/09 11:55pm
Msg #295420

:0) You're welcome. One sheet lasts a long time and it's kind of nice to move it on down the page if the job is more than one signature; that helps to keep everyone on the same line.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/10/09 11:39pm
Msg #295415

Thumbprints...do a search...

but your notary journal is an open book, and a matter of public record, so there is actually no reason that someone sitting at the table with they couldn't look at each and every notarization in that book that you have done, at least in Texas, IMLO. If they want to pay for it, I'd give them a copy of mine. Why would I care. It's a matter of public record. I sure as heck wouldn't volunteer it though. LOL

JJ

Reply by tonya/AL on 7/10/09 11:49pm
Msg #295418

Re: Thumbprints...do a search...

I did not realize that my journal is a matter of public record that anyone could view upon request. :/

Reply by John Schenk on 7/11/09 12:02am
Msg #295422

Re: Thumbprints...do a search...

Good thing to remember that it's not your own personal diary. You gotta keep the records with the thought in mind that it's an open record, and ANYONE can request to see those records at any time.

JJ

Reply by rengel/CA on 7/10/09 11:59pm
Msg #295421

Check the laws for YOUR state...

There are specific laws as to who you show your journal to and under what circumstances.

My .02

Reply by John Schenk on 7/11/09 12:06am
Msg #295423

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

Can't imagine that there's a state that it's not an open record, but don't know the laws of all the states. It's certainly an open record in Texas. VERY GOOD POINT THOUGH, and it certainly may be different in other states, but I doubt it. Is it not an open record in yours?

JJ

Reply by rengel/CA on 7/11/09 12:12am
Msg #295426

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

"A notary public must respond within 15 business days after the receipt of a written request
from any member of the public for a copy of a transaction in the notary public journal by
supplying either a photostatic copy of a line item from the notary public’s journal or an
acknowledgment that no such line item exists. The written request shall include the name of
the parties, the type of document, and the month and year in which the document was notarized.
The cost to provide the requested information must not exceed thirty cents ($0.30) per page.
(Government Code sections 8206(c) and 8206.5)"

From the 2009 California notary Public Handbook

Reply by John Schenk on 7/11/09 12:23am
Msg #295429

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

Missed this post while responding to the other, so it's obviously still an open record, and subject to disclosure, but it's a "line item" disclosure, which is significant.

Thanks for clarifying that!

JJ

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/12/09 9:19pm
Msg #295615

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

As mentioned above, before a person can request a copy of a journal entry, they have to provide specific information about that entry. Otherwise, a CA notary is obligated to keep their journal locked up and under their exclusive control at all times. No one should be allowed to just peruse through someone's journal. To me, that sounds like something different than "open record", regardless of what the legalities might be.

Reply by CH2inCA on 7/11/09 12:07am
Msg #295424

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

YES, check your state. I was looking for CA laws and found this; so it must not be a free for all in every state!!

Is my notary journal a public record that anyone may look at? ORS 194.152(4).
Most notaries public are exempt from disclosing the notary journal contents unless requested by the Secretary of State, Corporation Division, or when required by subpoena. OAR 160-100-430(2).

If the notary journal is in the possession of the Secretary of State's office, or if the notary public is a public official or public employee, then the notarial journal falls under the public record disclosure laws. Should the Secretary of State, Corporation Division, deem that it is in the public interest not to disclose such information, the notary journal would not be made public.

It is reasonable for a customer to see his or her own entry recorded in the notary journal, but the entries above and below should be covered to protect the privacy of those individuals

Reply by CH2inCA on 7/11/09 12:09am
Msg #295425

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

OOPS forgot to note; this is from the OR SOS.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/11/09 12:18am
Msg #295428

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

Certainly a HUGE difference there. Thank you! The laws are quite diverse from state to state, but this was one part of notary law, regarding the public record part of it, that I actually though would be quite consistent.

I stand corrected, and thank you for it! Thanks again!

JJ

Reply by CH2inCA on 7/11/09 12:27am
Msg #295430

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

:0) you are welcome. It's is interesting too that your laws prohibit noting the serial or identifying number of the document used for identification. CA requires it!!

LOVE IT!!

Reply by John Schenk on 7/11/09 12:31am
Msg #295431

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

It's not something you really worry about if it's not in your state. You just deal with the crap you have to deal with in your own state, which is diverse.

JJ

Reply by John Schenk on 7/11/09 12:35am
Msg #295432

Gotta run..they get pizzed if you have more than a couple...

posts on any issue, and I've certainly exceeded that again. Enjoyed the chat. Best of luck to you! It's my bed time anyway, so I can leave now without pizzin anyone off. LOL

Have a GREAT weekend!

JJ

Reply by John Schenk on 7/11/09 12:15am
Msg #295427

WOW...thank you CH!

That's interesting! I didn't know that was different in other states. Thank you! Here's what the statue holds here:

Entries in the notary's book are public information. A notary public shall, on payment of all fees, provide a certified copy of any record in the notary public's office to any person requesting the copy. (ENTRY BELOW)

Tex. Gov't. Code Ann. § 406.014 requires that a Notary Public maintain a record book. This record book must be maintained whether or not any fees are charged for your notary public services.

A notary public other than a court clerk notarizing instruments for the court shall keep in a book a record of: (1) the date of each instrument notarized; (2) the date of the notarization; (3) the name of the signer, grantor, or maker; (4) the signer's, grantor's, or maker's residence or alleged residence; (5) whether the signer, grantor, or maker is personally known by the notary public, was identified by an identification card issued by a governmental agency or a passport issued by the United States, or was introduced to the notary public and, if introduced, the name and residence or alleged residence of the individual introducing the signer, grantor, or maker; (6) if the instrument is proved by a witness, the residence of the witness, whether the witness is personally known by the notary public or was introduced to the notary public and, if introduced, the name and residence of the individual introducing the witness; (7) the name and residence of the grantee; (8) if land is conveyed or charged by the instrument, the name of the original grantee and the county where the land is located; and (9) a brief description of the instrument.

NOTE: 1 T.A.C. §87.60 prohibits a notary from recording in the notary's book of record the identification number that was assigned by the governmental agency or by the United States to the signer, grantor or maker and that is set forth on the identification card or passport; or any other number that could be used to identify the signer, grantor or maker of the document. Section 87.60 does not prohibit a notary from recording a number related to the residence or alleged residence of the signer, grantor or maker of the document or the instrument.

Entries in the notary's book are public information. A notary public shall, on payment of all fees, provide a certified copy of any record in the notary public's office to any person requesting the copy.

A notary public who administers an oath pursuant to Article 45.019 of the Code of Criminal Procedure is exempt from the requirement of recording that oath in the notary public’s record book.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/11/09 10:49am
Msg #295485

Makes more sense now as to why Texas notaries don't

require a signature or a thumbprint, doesn't it and Ca., for instance, does.

I don't mind allowing my signature if requested but I'm not going to give my thumbprint to a notary in Texas. There are reasons why they aren't required here...our legislature actually does think more about the notary law than notaries realize.

Reply by Tonya Grimes on 7/11/09 11:22am
Msg #295493

Re: Makes more sense now as to why Texas notaries don't

I don't think it is "required" in Alabama for the signor to sign the journal or provide a thumbprint.
Would I be opening myself up to something I don't know about by requesting a signature & print in the journal?

Reply by Jessc098 on 7/11/09 1:29am
Msg #295441

Re: Check the laws for YOUR state...

WA doesn't require I keep a journal, but I do as a matter of practice.The journal requests a person's ID numbers like SSN and/or DL number. I use only the expiration date of the ID they show me and I put in a code like "WA DL EXP" this way I'm only exposing (in an inspection) the signatures and names of people, which really means nothing unless the journal is stolen.

addresses are there too, but I complete those, and my handwriting leaves something to be desired. It all means something to me, but I doubt that there's any hazard of the aforementioned "photographic memory" being an issue there.

I do try to use a piece of paper to cover up the info (under the guise of using it as a guide to show people where I want them to sign) Usually what I do is get out the documents (in a loan signing) and place the HUD ( a legal-size doc, which covers the journal sufficiently) over the lines that have already been completed to indicate where I want to the borrower to sign.

That gets the journal signings out of the way ASAP and I don't have to worry about extra "stuff" in my hands--I put the journal in my bag and then flip over the hud for them to review.

Just an idea.

Jess

Reply by bahama on 7/11/09 1:01am
Msg #295434

Generally what I do is keep a cut folder in my journal and when it is time for the clients to sign I slide the folder over the other information I have in my journal. Haven't had any complaints as of yet. People I deal with tend to like the extra added privacy. They know their information is not out there for everybody to see. But that's me, everybody have their own way.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 7/11/09 6:34am
Msg #295447

I used to use the sticky note method to cover up name, address, and ID info of previous signers, but I switched to using a piece of cardstock that I bent in about 6 places so it folds over the back of the page and covers only the lines that are already used. I fasten the cardstock on the page with two paper clips, and I move it down the page as needed, using the pre-folds.