Posted by GinnySac on 7/2/09 3:05pm
Msg #294414

POA

In signing a Power of Attorney, does a Notary sign the Original or a Copy? Also, do I just use an Acknowledgement or a Jurat?

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 7/2/09 3:15pm
Msg #294415

Ginny Did the company sent an original to you or was it emailed?

Reply by GinnySac on 7/2/09 3:44pm
Msg #294422

The lady is bringing it by blank. So then obviously they would sign in front of me and the test would be included in the form. So then there are no loose certificates for POA's?

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 3:15pm
Msg #294416

You should never notarize a copy. You can only notarize the POA if there are original signatures. You would use an acknowledgment. If they want copies, tell the client to record it at the Clerk's office and then buy a certified copy.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 7/2/09 3:17pm
Msg #294417

Her question is vague. Are there signatures on the POA or was a blank one emailed to her for bo and notary signature?

Reply by GinnySac on 7/2/09 3:45pm
Msg #294423

Not necessarily a copy, but a doc stating that that is a copy.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 4:32pm
Msg #294432

Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

Why not certify a copy for them? You do know that Florida notaries are authorized to certify copies, don't you? It is not necessary too record a PAO and the majority of people do not record a POA. I'm scratching my head here wondering where you are getting this bad information.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 5:39pm
Msg #294441

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

I am a legal assistant; I deal with POAs on a daily basis and know for a fact that it requires an acknowledgment.

When a Florida notary attests to a copy, they are saying that it is not a publicly recordable document. POAs are publicly recordable, therefore notaries can not certify them.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/2/09 6:14pm
Msg #294445

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

Robert, I've seen lots of things as a legal Ass. but do not believe that something different can't happen. The day I think I KNOW something about the law without having a degree is the day this seasoned law office worker needs to quit working for lawyers. MHO, and I do mean H.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 6:18pm
Msg #294446

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

OK, as a legal assistant I am telling you, without a shadow of a doubt, that a POA requires an acknowledgment. Anyone can slap a jurat at the end of something, but a POA -SHOULD- have an acknowledgment. Just like an affidavit is supposed to have a jurat, and yet many companies are putting an acknowledgment at the end.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/3/09 10:54am
Msg #294545

As a legal ass. back-atcha

I can tell you that you'll learn you need to leave that legal ass. thinking at the office. "Out there" as a notary you serve yourself best by sticking to those black/white notary rules. You turn off the law "knowledge" and focus your scope of service to notary work.

I understand that as legal assistants we likely both try to strive for perfection and to support our bosses by learning and knowing the routines of our particular field of legal work. Sometimes legal assistants even know more about a certain area of law than their boss and they add value to the practice. However, the best policy for a legal ass. is to stop assuming it's okay to carry their legal ass. knowledge-based "assumptions" into the mobile notary field. It will eventually make a true ass out of the legal assistant who is part-timing it as a mobile notary public. ( I even know a lawyer in another state who did mobile notary work and was slapped on the hands for offering advice...using legal knowledge in the field. It was not welcomed as he was not a financial transaction lawyer and had no idea what lending was all about.)

It can be cathartic to just "let it go" and be a notary, not a legal ass.

Yes, I am making light of legal assistants by using "ass." rather than "asst." I've been around long enough to know a little about my trade. I have yet to see an assuming "I know" legal assistant who was not either fired or their employer not\ taking the breath of a sigh of relief when they moved on to another place of employment. I daresay I have been serving lawyers long enough to make this statement from a varied perspective.

If we want to increase our actual power of legal pursuits then we need to go to law school. Else, we endanger our employer and ourselves by assuming we know too much. Just my opinion, Robert, and one which served me well as both a notary and a legal assistant.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 7/8/09 11:04pm
Msg #295077

Hear, hear! Well said, as usual, Brenda! n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/2/09 6:27pm
Msg #294448

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

Keep something in mind, Robert - you're in FL - you can't say with certainty that ALL POA's require an acknowledgment...maybe the ones you've seen in FL do but that's as far as it goes - giving that advice, therefore, is not accurate.

Further: "When a Florida notary attests to a copy, they are saying that it is not a publicly recordable document. POAs are publicly recordable, therefore notaries can not certify them"....not true.

Page 15 of our manual:

In Florida, notaries are authorized to attest to the trueness of photocopies of certain documents. Although commonly known as certified photocopies, the notary law refers to these documents as attested photocopies. A notary public may make attested photocopies if the following criteria, found in section 117.05(12) of the Florida Statutes, are satisfied.

The document must be an original document.

A notary public cannot make an attested photocopy from a photocopy, or from another certified copy.

The document cannot be a public record, certified copies of which are available from
another public official. If a certified copy can be obtained from the official source, then the
notary public should decline the request.

The making of the photocopy must be supervised by the notary public. It is not sufficient for
the notary public to compare the photocopy with the original document. The notary public
must actually make the photocopy or supervise another person while he or she makes the
photocopy.
After making (or supervising the making of) the photocopy, the notary should complete a
notarial certificate in substantially the same form as prescribed by law.
This notarial certificate should be typed, stamped or written on the front or back of the
photocopy or may be attached as a separate page. One of the most often asked questions
concerning attested photocopies is whether a particular document is a public record. Notaries
must make a determination about this question before attesting to the trueness of any
photocopy. The following documents are examples of public records, copies of which
cannot be attested to by a notary:

Birth certificate

Marriage certificate

Death certificate

Certificate of citizenship or naturalization

Documents filed in a court proceeding

Documents recorded by the Clerk of the Court

Public records maintained in government offices

Student records (transcripts, etc.) kept in public education offices

Federal or state income tax forms, already filed

Professional licenses issued by the State of Florida

Any document for which photocopying is prohibited

Providing we supervise the photocopying of a document we CAN certify the photocopy...except as stated above...the fact that it is "recordable" has no bearing.. what does matter is this: "The document cannot be a public record, certified copies of which are available from another public official. If a certified copy can be obtained from the official source, then the notary public should decline the request"

http://www.flgov.com/pdfs/ref_manual

Reply by Linda Hubbell on 7/2/09 6:30pm
Msg #294449

Should have added to last sentence...

However, IMO, if a person presents with an original POA and requests a certification of a photocopy, directing them to "record the POA and get a certified copy from the court clert" is wrong and, IMO, bordering on UPL...

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 6:37pm
Msg #294450

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

On that same page, the recommended certificate states:

On this __________ day of __________, 20__,
I attest that the preceding or attached
document is a true, exact, complete, and
unaltered photocopy made by me of
____(DESCRIPTION OF DOCUMENT)_____ presented to
me by the document's custodian, __________
____________________, and, to the best of my
knowledge, that the photocopied document is
neither a public record NOR A PUBLICLY
RECORDABLE DOCUMENT, certified copies of which
are available from an official source other than
a notary public.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/2/09 6:40pm
Msg #294451

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

You said..."When a Florida notary attests to a copy, they are saying that it is not a publicly recordable document. POAs are publicly recordable, therefore notaries can not certify them"

It's not true....period...

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 6:40pm
Msg #294452

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

The recommended certificate in the Florida notary manual, page 15, states that the notary should attest that the document is not publicly recordable. PERIOD.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 6:58pm
Msg #294455

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

Robert, If the POA does NOT have a book and page number on it, it is NOT a public record. Sorry, you're wrong.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 6:55pm
Msg #294454

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

Florida notaries can not attest to to a copy if it IS a public record and many POAs are NOT recorded in the public record. Why is it you can not seem to grasp this?

And, I have seen POAs with jurats. I did a POA signing last week for a woman married to a merchant marine and that POA had a jurat. I don't care if you're a circuit court judge, don't come here spouting off especially to notaries in other states when you have no clue about that states notary laws.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 7:02pm
Msg #294456

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

Why is it everyone has ignored the fact that the FLORIDA NOTARY HANDBOOK, PAGE 15, says that the recommended certificate for a notarized photocopy, includes language that the document is not a PUBLICLY RECORDABLE DOCUMENT?

If you did a POA with a jurat, great. It will never be questioned. BUT, it should have an acknowledgment.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 7:15pm
Msg #294459

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

Also, page 12 of the Florida Notary Handbook:

============================
Documents typically requiring an acknowledgment include deeds, mortgages, contracts, and POWERS OF ATTORNEY (except those pertaining to motor vehicle titles).

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 7:29pm
Msg #294463

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

The FL handbook often uses the words "typically" and "commonly". Where would I find the actual statute covering what documents require what type of notarization.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 7:34pm
Msg #294465

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

You won't, because no such statute exists. However, the Florida Notary Handbook is an authority for Florida notaries.

But if you think that Becca_FL's opinion would hold up better in court, please go ahead and make all the certified copies of POAs that you want. Just be sure to send me a copy of it so I can staple it to a complaint form and send it to the Governor's office. Because the handbook says that a notary should not make a certified copy of a publicly recordable document. POAs are publicly recordable. Therefore, no can do.

Again, I go by the handbook. I don't know what Becca goes by.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 7:47pm
Msg #294467

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

From what I understand, POA's are not issued by a government entitiy, aren't those the only ones they are refering to in the handbook?

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 7:52pm
Msg #294468

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

"Publicly recordable" means any document which can be recorded. POAs can be recorded, regardless of where they came from.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 8:39pm
Msg #294481

Hell, Robert, I can print out this post and record it in the

public record, if I wanted to. Maybe I will, to show how wrong you are.

Reply by PAW on 7/2/09 8:45pm
Msg #294484

Re: Hell, Robert, I can print out this post and record it in the

Sorry Becca, but I don't think so. Please see the Attorney General Office Advisory Legal Opinion AGO 2005-17. It may just surprise you. It certainly did me.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 7:53pm
Msg #294469

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

Also, if the POA hasn't been filed, and I only have the client's word on that, what then?

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 8:03pm
Msg #294472

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

It doesn't matter whether it has been recorded or not. If it is possible to record it, then the notary shouldn't certify copies of it.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 8:12pm
Msg #294473

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

The actual statute 117.05 (12)(a) leaves out the words "nor a publicly recordable document" . What then?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/2/09 8:22pm
Msg #294475

Nice catch, Karen...

"(12)(a) A notary public may supervise the making of a photocopy of an original document and attest to the trueness of the copy, provided the document is neither a vital record in this state, another state, a territory of the United States, or another country, nor a public record, if a copy can be made by the custodian of the public record. "

Nothing about being recordable - just about its not being a vital record nor a public record (not a recordable instrument)..

Reply by PAW on 7/2/09 8:34pm
Msg #294476

Interpretation of the statutes

Granted, this is just an exercise in academics, but it's all about how the statute is interpreted, which falls squarely on a jurist's shoulders. I encourage all participants in this discussion to read the following documents prepared by the Law Office of James W. Martin, P.A. Subject: EXECUTION OF FLORIDA LEGAL DOCUMENTS: THE REQUIREMENTS FOR RECORDING AND NOTARIZING DOCUMENTS IN FLORIDA. Specifically, section 1.8 - Certifying True Copies. Interesting reading.

http://www.jamesmartinpa.com/fllegal.htm

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 8:54pm
Msg #294486

Re: Interpretation of the statutes

I've come across that before; definitely a worthwile reading.

Personally, I wouldn't certify anything that already had a notary acknowledgment on it, because, as stated on that website, the clerk will record almost anything with a notary acknowledgment.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 8:36pm
Msg #294478

Re: Nice catch, Karen...

I would feel comfortable attesting to a photocopy of a POA. And if they give me an ACK it's an ACK, a jurat, it's a jurat.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 8:58pm
Msg #294489

Re: Nice catch, Karen...

Thanks, took a while to reel it in.....

Reply by WDMD on 7/14/09 2:05pm
Msg #295837

Re: Robert, how do know you would use an ack w/out seeing POA?

http://f510.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1%5f159%

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/14/09 3:43pm
Msg #295844

WDMD - I can't figure this link out...help. n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 8:52pm
Msg #294485

BS...Don't belive what Robert/FL says.

Obviously, he thinks being a legal assistant gives him the know how and knowledge to interpret Florida notary laws and he is so very wrong.

To set the record straight, Robert, read further into the page you quote and take notice to the following:

One of the most often asked questions
concerning attested photocopies is whether a
particular document is a public record. Notaries
must make a determination about this question
before attesting to the trueness of any
photocopy. The following documents are
examples of public records, copies of which
cannot be attested to by a notary:

Birth certificate

Marriage certificate

Death certificate

Certificate of citizenship or naturalization

Documents filed in a court proceeding

Documents recorded by the Clerk of the Court

Public records maintained in government offices

Student records (transcripts, etc.) kept in public education offices

Federal or state income tax forms, already filed

Professional licenses issued by the State of Florida

Any document for which photocopying is prohibited
This is not a complete list of public records. If the document is issued by a
government entity, the notary should contact that entity to determine whether a
certified copy is available. If one is available, then the notary public must decline
to make an attested photocopy. Additionally, the notary should ask the person if the document has
been filed in a court proceeding or in the official records at the courthouse.


I'm sorry, am I missing something here? I don't think so...I deal with well know and wealthy clients in my neck of the south and none of them are going to run out and have their personal business recorded in the public record. Are you absolutely nuts???? WTH would anyone record a POA BEFORE it's necessary?

I'll give you an A for effort, but a D- for comprehension.

Reply by PAW on 7/2/09 8:57pm
Msg #294488

Re: BS...Don't belive what Robert/FL says.

I agree, but for different reasons. Many POAs that I've seen, except those prepared by a few probate lawyers, do not qualify for recording. That is, they don't comply with the statutes for recordable documents.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 9:02pm
Msg #294490

Re: BS...Don't belive what Robert/FL says.

Why would someone need a notary-certified copy of a POA if it isn't necessary? If they want a certified copy so bad, they can go down to the clerk's office, pay the fee, and record it.

I give you an A+++ for belittling every member of this board, A+++ for acting like you know everything, and an F--- for actually knowing what you are talking about.

Sorry, but I believe my experience as a legal assistant is more beneficial to this message board than the fact that you deal with "well known and wealthy" clients.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 9:03pm
Msg #294491

Re: BS...Don't belive what Robert/FL says.

And again, Becca, next time you certify a copy of a POA, please send me a copy so I can send it to the Governor's office with a complaint attached.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 9:11pm
Msg #294493

I would be happy to, Grasshopper. n/m

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 9:12pm
Msg #294494

Re: BS...Don't belive what Robert/FL says.

The fact that you would file a complaint against another notary regarding an interpretation of the statute as opposed to the reference manual is apalling to me. You may be a legal assistant but I spent 10 years interpreting government regulations and my experience tells me she has the proper interpretation of this one.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/2/09 9:15pm
Msg #294495

Re: BS...Don't belive what Robert/FL says.

Personally, I'm not going to bet my commission on something like that. If Becca chooses to do that, that's her decision.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 9:15pm
Msg #294496

And, on the flip side, preacher boi...

send me the next wedding license you notarize with an explanation of why you deserve a $170 trip fee.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/3/09 6:39am
Msg #294518

Re: And, on the flip side, preacher boi...

And send me a video of you explaining loan documents to clients. I'm sure the Florida Bar would get a real kick out of that. While you're at it, send me a copy of your invoice showing whatever ridiculous fee YOU are charging, because I'm quite sure you charge more than $10/stamp for these signings.

Reply by Robert/FL on 7/3/09 6:43am
Msg #294519

Re: And, on the flip side, preacher boi...

And, my $170 travel fee is a BARGAIN, taking into consideration what others charge, and considering the amount of time and energy I put into making it a quality service. I also hand-calligraphy a commemorative marriage certificate, walk the couple through each step of the marriage license process, and personally file the marriage license.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 9:10pm
Msg #294492

Oh, my dear little Robert, a/k/a preacher boi...

Many of us here are legal assistants, paralegals and some are even CLAs, but that does not mean one word is the end all be all. You will grow by listening...you have one mouth and two ears...listen twice as much as you talk and you too will grow, grasshopper. Just don't end up hanging yourself in a hotel closet for sexual satisfaction.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 8:36pm
Msg #294477

You won't, Riley, because a FL notary can not decide what

cert is needed unless the notary sees the words "sworn to or affirmed" on the actual doc missing a cert. The words "sworn to or affirmed by" indicate that a jurat is necessary. Don't ask me where to find this in the manual because I have no extra time right now to look it up. To just decide, on your own, what cert to attach is considered to be UPL and this is discussed in the manual as well.

Reply by PAW on 7/2/09 8:41pm
Msg #294482

F.S. 117.03

117.03 Administration of oaths.—A notary public may administer an oath and make a certificate thereof when it is necessary for the execution of any writing or document to be published under the seal of a notary public. The notary public may not take an acknowledgment of execution in lieu of an oath if an oath is required.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 8:55pm
Msg #294487

Thanks, Paul. Had irons in the fire & crops to be harvested. n/m

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 8:43pm
Msg #294483

Re: You won't, Riley, because a FL notary can not decide what

Yes, I know. I was just responding to the thread and not changing the subject line cuz I'm new and I was afraid I'd get knocked out of order. I'll figure it out. Sorry.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/2/09 5:03pm
Msg #294435

actually... she's in CA so that's not all true

She CAN notarize a copy of a POA and certify it as a copy, but ONLY if she has the original to compare it with at the same time.

She CAN notarize the original and copies of the original as well.


Also, she CANNOT determine ack vs jurat. Big no-no. The signer/doc receive must indicate this. Of course, is should be an ack... but can't actually tell them that.

I'm more concerned that as a CA notary, she doesn't already know this about POAs in this state. It's pretty clear in the handbook.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/2/09 6:08pm
Msg #294442

I'm not sure, for Texas, it is allowable.

From our rules: *A Notary Public is a public servant with statewide jurisdiction who is authorized to take acknowledgments, protest instruments permitted by law to be protested (primarily negotiable instruments and bills and notes), administer oaths, take depositions, and certify copies of documents >>not recordable<< in the public records. *

A POA is recordable. So, I would love to get a legal opinion on this. Will try to slip it into conversation around the next social gathering we have.

Just for the record for Texans I thought I'd post this.

Reply by GinnySac on 7/2/09 7:22pm
Msg #294462

Re: actually... she's in CA so that's not all true

I don't know all the answers to every question, that's why I ask. Last time I dealt with a POA was in 2005, Forgive me if I don't have the handbook engraved in my long term memory. But my goal is to become a notary as great as you Marian.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/3/09 1:13am
Msg #294515

Re: actually... she's in CA so that's not all true

I'm not that great a notary, Ginny... I just try to make sure that I know my job. I know this thread has exploded in to a debate over Florida law... but to get back to your question...

Technically speaking, POAs are done with acknowledgments. It's just like how a deed of trust is done with an acknowledgment. However, we cannot actually determine or advise anyone about it if they do not know. You have to explain the purpose of both and let them decide for themselves. Even if they ask, "Well, which on is better?" The answer is, "Neither" since they serve different purposes.

Now, as for originals vs. copies... it depends on the situation.

You can notarize multiple copies of the same document just as you normally would, provided the original signer is present and has signed each copy individually.

Of, however, you have a copy that you want to certify, you can do that -- but only if you have the original there with you to compare. ideally, you want to make the copies yourself.

There is NO signature to notarize when you certify a copy, but I do recommend you record the details of the person presenting the original.

You do not have to use an prescribed wording for this, but the SOS does recommend the following:

=======================

State of California
County of _______________

I (name of notary public) , Notary Public, certify that on (date) , I examined
the original power of attorney and the copy of the power of attorney. I further certify that
the copy is a true and correct copy of the original power of attorney.

___________________ (seal)
Notary Public Signature


===========================



BTW... I highly suggest engraving the content of the handbook on your brain. Knowing state notary law is essential. Though it is always good to ask!

The only reason I was concerned is that you were asking what kind of certificate to use. No matter how long you've been a notary, but especially if you've been one for 4+ years... this is something you should know. It's a but like claiming to be a taxi driver and not knowing what a seat belt is.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/3/09 4:09pm
Msg #294578

Re: actually... she's in CA so that's not all true

Ginny, I agree with Marian that there are many things that we SHOULD have engraved in our long term memory, but sometimes that might fail us. The important thing to know is that the handbook is downloadable from the SOS website. I recommend that any time something like this comes up, that you make a bee-line directly there and do some research from the source. Know what's in our state notary law, and if you then have a question, by all means come here for opinions about how to interpret that FOR OUR STATE. What is required /allowed in other states is irrelevant to us. (I also recommend you be careful about what opinions you take to heart.)

From your original post, it seemed to me that you hadn't bothered to look it up on your own, or you likely would have put the question differently. *** It's only by first doing your own research directly from state law (and perhaps a periodic re-read of the handbook as a refresher) that you become a great notary! *** From her posts, I get the impression that Marian is constantly in learning mode. If you truly have a goal to be "as great a notary", then go study that handbook a few dozen times more.

BTW, I often find myself going back to the handbook for reference or to reread a section. In the nine years I've been a notary, there have been lots of changes -- and every now and then I find something I had forgotten or wasn't exactly as I had remembered it (or has been changed).

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 7/2/09 3:20pm
Msg #294418

Ginny, can't wait for your reply but as long as the signatures are original, doesn't matter if the document is a copy or original as long as no signatures are on it you can use which ever.
And of course the person must sign in front of you.
As far as which acknowledgement or jurat the POA should have what they want already typed on the signature page.

Reply by GinnySac on 7/2/09 7:37pm
Msg #294466

Thanks for your answers, they've been extremely helpful.

This is the situation:

My client's father is an M.D. He is going through a divorce and he gave his POA to an acquaintance so that he could meet with the lawyer and follow up on all legal issues.

This man is no longer working for the M.D but Doc now wants to transfer the POA to his daughter and revoke the previous POA.

Now, since it's been forever that I've dealt with a POA, then that is why I brought it up. Not necessarily to bust out arguments with the folks in Florida.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/3/09 4:53pm
Msg #294579

The content of the document (and the reasons for it) should be irrelevant to you, unless you are certifying that a POA is a true copy, in which case you would need to compare the two to make sure they are exactly the same. I suggest you ignore all the posts from people from other states, as they don't necessarily apply here in California.

With the information you've presented, it sounds to me like he should see -- or has seen -- an attorney to properly prepare the document, in which case, the notary verbiage should be attached. Your job, then is to simply check his ID and complete the notarization, just making sure that which ever type of verbiage is attached (acknowledgment - most likely - or jurat) has the proper wording. This is no different than any other type of notarization. End of story. Anything beyond that is UPL. BTW, if there isn't notary verbiage attached, then I recommend you ask him to contact the document preparer to specify which type of notarization to do, since we can't make that decision for someone else, as has been mentioned here previously.

This is also very basic to being a notary and something that is very important to understand. Again, I strongly recommend you go back and reread your notary handbook a few times.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/2/09 4:25pm
Msg #294429

"does a Notary sign the Original or a Copy? " - this is basic notary 101 - you notarize ONLY original signatures.

"Also, do I just use an Acknowledgement or a Jurat?" - that's usually indicated, preprinted, on the POA itself - if not then the signer or document originator must tell you what they want ... absent specific wording in the document (i.e. being duly sworn, subscribed and sworn to, etc )it's not a call you're authorized to make.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 5:05pm
Msg #294436

I did a POA 2 days ago. She got it at Walmart. The notarial wording was a half page long and had me attesting to the document not the sig so I attached a loose Affirmation. Correct or no?
I've been doing loan closing for 3 years but things are slow so I guess I'm going mobile.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 5:06pm
Msg #294438

Forgot to add, the word "swear" was used in the origional.

Reply by Riley/FL on 7/2/09 7:18pm
Msg #294460

After reading all the back and forth, I got an answer to my question which probably should have been a separate topic anyway.