Posted by John Schenk on 7/1/09 8:29pm
Msg #294265

State Employee Mileage Reimbursement Rate..why get less?

Each state has posted online the mileage reimbursement rate for its state employees when they use their own, personal vehicle for travel. Currently, in Texas, it's $0.55 per mile.

https://fmx.cpa.state.tx.us/fm/travel/travelrates.php

Now THAT rate is solely for the use of the vehicle. They are employees that are getting compensated by the state via their salary so that's all they owe them. For a notary, charging the SAME $0.55 per mile to travel to a signing out-of-town, charging that rate gives you absolutely NOTHING for the time you spend driving. Look at the price of vehicles, maintenance, gas, and insurance. If a notary wants to donate his/her time, the least they should charge to go to a signing would be the state mileage reimbursement rate, and that's only if you want to donate your time for driving.

For my out-of-town fees, I use the state rate for the mileage, plus $25.00 an hour for driving down the road. The longer the trip is, the higher my hourly gets. LOL

Not sure how anyone else calculates their travel, but this is kinda how I base it. How do you gals/guys figure your out-of-town travel? Just interested in knowing how you figure that time and mileage.

JJ

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 8:43pm
Msg #294266

Yes, I do understand you can deduct it on your tax return...

but I think that is a collateral benefit to me, and it only benefits you to the percentage of the tax bracket you are in, so I don't figure that in when calculating my fee. I'm providing the vehicle, gas, tires, maintenance, and insurance, so I'm fronting those costs. They are hiring MY vehicle and ME to drive out-of-town to do a closing.

Just thought I would put that in there in case somebody brought that up. LOL

JJ

Reply by PAW on 7/1/09 8:54pm
Msg #294269

Re: Yes, I do understand you can deduct it on your tax return...

Don't consider they are "hiring your vehicle" for any purpose. If they are, and you think that way, you may end up needing to get commercial vehicle insurance, which can be expensive.

I don't consider the hiring agency (title, lender or ss) hiring my vehicle. They are hiring me to do a job at a particular location. They aren't hiring me to drive there, just show up there, much the same as an employer is expecting an employee (not an 'outside employee') to be at a location to perform their job. Method of transport is not a determining factor and POV (privately owned vehicle) is not required.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 9:17pm
Msg #294273

Re: Yes, I do understand you can deduct it on your tax return...

I didn't mean they were "hiring my vehicle," literally. I AM, however, calculating in there the use, and cost, of my vehicle to travel to a location, as well as my time to get there, and back, in quoting a fee for that travel. I can assure you that the use of my POV IS calculated in my fee, as well as my time driving my POV. It's much cheaper for them for me to figure POV costs to go to a signing that it would be for me to figure in taking a cab. LOL I understand your point, but if you have to travel to a location, you have to figure in your costs of getting there and back in setting your fee.

JJ

Reply by PAW on 7/1/09 8:50pm
Msg #294267

So, if you figure you can average about 40 miles in hour of travel, that would be 62½¢ per mile for your time. Add to that the 55¢ per mile for gas, oil, etc. Then you can roughly use $1.175 cost per mile. Using an average number of miles for any given zip code, you would multiply those miles times your cost per mile to obtain your travel expense. For example, if the 'zone' (zip code, town, city, whatever you use) is 30 miles on the average, then your travel cost would be $35.25. Add to that your signing fee, say $75.00, plus a $25.00 edoc fee, then your cost to do an edoc signing in that zone would be $135.25.

That's sort of the same way I figure my 'cost' of doing business, with a bit more 'per mile' for automobile expense.

(The above numbers are used for demonstration purposes only. Your mileage and cost may vary.)

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 9:10pm
Msg #294272

Actually, on an out-of-town signing in MY area, I'm going to average 60 MPH, if not more, as I don't have the traffic issues that those of you in the bigger cities have. I would certainly think that in the bigger cities that you guys would have to adjust it accordingly.

Always wondered how you guys did that, especially in a rush hour timed closing. That's always interested me. I can run 50 miles in the time it takes some of you to run 10 miles, at certain times of the day in any given city across the U.S..

The way you calculate your time/mileage in the BIG cities, is VERY interesting to me, although that doesn't affect the way I calculate mine in small city. I think the folks in the big cities have a MUCH more difficult job in doing these closings and in scheduling than those of us in what, comparatively, would be more rural traveling conditions as compared to you guys.

As for your numbers on the fees, my basic signing fee is $100 plus $25 for edocs, if it's across the street and I can walk there. I can pretty much be anywhere in town here in less than 20 minutes. I don't charge extra for signings in town, but I do charge extra for any mailing address outside the city.

I used to live in Houston, for only a couple years, and I can't imagine how notaries figure their fees for a signing down there. It's obvious that the profit ratio has got to be better for me than for a notary in Dallas or Houston or some other big city. I don't have to deal with the traffic.

JJ

Reply by notaryinmo on 7/1/09 9:25pm
Msg #294274

In calculating your mileage, are you stating then that you are a state employee?

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 9:26pm
Msg #294275

Not at all...it's just a base that I use as a reference.

JJ

Reply by notaryinmo on 7/1/09 9:30pm
Msg #294277

If state employees are receiving .55 per mile from the state, they can take the difference on their federal tax return at the end of the calendar year's tax preparation.

Because the state employees are using their POV while on the job, it would be considered hours on the job, in which they are paid their regular pay. I can almost bet you that no state employee donates their time or mileage.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 9:39pm
Msg #294280

You have missed the point, notaryinmo

State employees have nothing to do with my post. As I said, I use the state employee mileage reimbursement rate as a guage for what I charge per mile for the cost of running my vehicle down the road. This is NOT about state employees, and I am not, nor have I ever been, a state employee.

When a state employee uses their own POV, they get reimbursed at the state rate. In addition to that, they are being paid their salary, plus possibly a per diem, when they travel. I'm NOT talking about that. I'm talking about charging for mileage, as a NOTARY or SA, and in addition charging for OUR TIME while driving to get to the signing, and back.

JJ

If state employees are receiving .55 per mile from the state, they can take the difference on their federal tax return at the end of the calendar year's tax preparation.

Because the state employees are using their POV while on the job, it would be considered hours on the job, in which they are paid their regular pay. I can almost bet you that no state employee donates their time or mileage.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/1/09 9:56pm
Msg #294286

Exactly right, John...

"I'm talking about charging for mileage, as a NOTARY or SA, and in addition charging for OUR TIME while driving to get to the signing, and back." Anyone who doesn't is not doing the math and is giving their time away.

Reply by notaryinmo on 7/2/09 3:40am
Msg #294321

Re: You have missed the point, notaryinmo

I use the federal mileage rate than the state employee rate to figure out how much I charge for any closings. Then at the end of the year, I don't have to backtrack to figure out how much more I should be reporting for my business mileage.

I, too, am in a rural area. As I said before, I figure out the mileage before I quote my price, which includes my drive to and from the assignment.

In my second response to your post, I was referring to IRS tax law pertaining to what an employee can report on thier 2106. The other paragraph's first sentence has to do with IRS theory.

So, how did I miss the point, John? Or is that your way of just making it sound like you know more than someone else does, which it seems you are getting very good at.

Reply by Cari on 7/2/09 7:43am
Msg #294334

as a former state employee, you DO get travel expenses once you submit a travel voucher. BUT if you get reimbursed, there was no way you could write it off in taxes!

Reply by jba/fl on 7/1/09 9:26pm
Msg #294276

You are so right about the traffic being an issue. So many times I see that borrowers want appt. at 5 or 6pm, which is right in the middle of rush hour traffic. Orlando rush hour is 2:30 pm to 7pm and 4 miles can take 45 mins in some areas. I don't understand why everyone selects 5pm-6pm - how are they navigating through traffic to be home? Also, 4pm in some areas mean I'm stuck returning. Gotta love those last minute calls too when they want you to be somewhere in an hour and can't get docs to you timely. We are also toll heavy if you wish to really make time so I have to figure in this as well. Most work with me on these issues but occasionally someone will balk and then have to continue down their list.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 9:33pm
Msg #294278

I really admire you guys in dealing with that! It's so much harder for you than it is for those of us in the smaller cities. I really doubt I would do this at all if I were in a larger city. IF I did it, I would certainly have many fewer signings. I do not know how those of you in the big cities do these signings at high traffic times for the fees I see posted. I really don't! You certainly deserve more, but I'm sure not going to take any less. LOL

JJ

Reply by jba/fl on 7/1/09 9:46pm
Msg #294283

Ask and ye shall receive...applies here too. Sometimes I ask borrower if they are set in stone for their time - most aren't and we can work something out beneficial to all. If they are, then I deal with it and hope it is in an area of a friend to visit or a store I don't normally visit as out of way, etc. Always good book and/or puzzles in car. Mom always said if you don't have something to read you will be stuck in traffic and bored and irritated out of your skull, but if you have something to do, then nothing happens. Apparently, she is right more than not. Be Prepared - the Girl Scout in me to this day.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 10:08pm
Msg #294289

BTW...I'm not a troll. LOL

That was, however, a funny discussion.

I "think" it's a reality that per signing that folks in smaller cities probably make more per signing than those in the big cities. We don't have to drive as far, nor have traffic condition problems that you folks in the big cities have to deal with, and that's just a simple fact...unless you book one down the street. Another fact is that we have far less competition. If the few notaries in an area that has very few notaries got together and all set a minimum fee, they'd probably all make more money.

However, even when the numbers are few, there's still someone that will lowball. When you get right down to it, it only takes two in competition with each other, unless there is some agreement on a bottom. The problem with that is that the lowballer doesn't give the service you give, and will then go right back to cutting fees to get the jobs. It's a vicious circle that is called competition. I just try to do my job and let my clients call me back for the next closing.

JJ

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/1/09 9:42pm
Msg #294281

More employee mentality from a so called entrepreneur. n/m

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 9:49pm
Msg #294284

Re: More employee mentality from a so called entrepreneur.

I'm sure that has a meaning, but I missed it. LOL

JJ

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/1/09 9:51pm
Msg #294285

I'm quite sure you did miss it, John and that's sad, indeed. n/m

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 10:06pm
Msg #294288

Becca, why don't you explain it to me..LET IT RIP...

so maybe I understand your post, as I really don't understand your headliner post with no explanation of what you are talking about. Let it rip! Get it off your chest! For some reason you don't like me, so just let it go, so I know why you think you need to attack my posts on this board. I don't really understand your attitude, and I guess, if "that's sad," that I would truly like you to tell me WHY "that's sad."

JJ

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 10:16pm
Msg #294290

There are Trolls, and there are Attackers on MSG Boards...

I don't try to be either.

I have asked questions on this board, and I've received wonderful answers. I've responded to posts on this board, and I "think" I have posted responsibly, and assisted as I could.

I think this is a GREAT board, but I think some of the posters here try to belittle you and attack you as a newcomer, when there simply is no reason to do that. I had a thread on that, and not asking everyone to weigh in on that subject again, but I still don't understand the snide attacks, or outright attacks, towards members of this board.

I'm just a poster! I'm not trying to become some leader of this forum. I just weigh in on some of the posts and post some posts I have questions about, and try to interact with people that I consider my peers. Isn't that what this forum is about?

JJ

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/1/09 11:25pm
Msg #294298

And, there are posters that just don't get it and over post. n/m

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 11:47pm
Msg #294301

Becca, I suppose that's your answer, which is nothing...

but rather just another snide remark. I don't "think" I "over-post." Some may agree with you, and some may not. I have no issues with you, but you evidently have some grudge against me. Do you not like Texans? Do you not like men? What is it I don't get? You can PM me to spare me of any stupidity that you feel that I have shown on here, if you don't wish to publicly post it..I would be so thankful for you to elaborate as to WHY, as I just don't get it, since you obviously won't do it on this forum, yet you belittle me with your headliner posts. Why is that? What have I done to you? This is not a thin skin notary question, but rather a personal attack question. Person to person. PM me and tell me what your problem is with me.

I RESPECT your abilities as a notary, and think you're a smart lady, but I do not respect your abilities to communicate.

Personally, I don't have the time to post on this forum all the time. When I do have the time, I enjoy posting. I laugh, I cry, I understand what everyone is going through, whether I have personally experienced all of the posts or not. Sometimes it's just empathy, which we can all feel. I'm not ANYONE'S enemy. I have a goal to bring our fees UP, as a whole. I GET it, and I ENJOY posting when I am able to, especially on a GREAT BOARD with all but a few members that have a bad attitude.

JJ

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 11:17pm
Msg #294297

I actually have NO idea who the Admin or Mods are here....

I may be pullin on superman's cape in my post, and if so, I'll probably get whacked, just because I took issue, if for no other reason. Who is the Admin and who are the mods, if I may ask? I don't really know where to find that. Might be a nice parting gift for me to know, if Becca is the Admin or a mod. LOL

Wouldn't change any of my posts, but it would be nice to know.

Long day tomorrow, and it was a WONDERFUL day today. I could not have had a better day today, other than the silly post here, which may have been by an admin or mod. LOL Life is Grand! In approximately 2 weeks, I drag almost 2 years income in one check. I'll still keep doing signings, but I never had to do them anyway. I ENJOY doing them. I NEVER turn down an opportunity to make money. I AM going on vacation pretty soon, so even if I'm allowed to post here, I'm gonna be gone for a while soon. I KNOW that Becca is gonna miss me! LOL

JJ

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/1/09 11:37pm
Msg #294300

Postitis Syndrome...

Postitis Syndrome:

An ailment of unknown origin considered to be 'virtually' viral that can affect wide cross-sections of any population predominantly with Internet capability. However, more seriously infecting those most susceptible i.e. those who: are anal retentive; have no other life; have too much time on their hands; are infirm; are agoraphobics; possess other such vulnerabilities.

The most obvious symptoms - other than the outwardly addictive behavior more readily observed by others - is an abnormal growth spanning all (or at least a majority) of the fingertips called a 'keyboard'. Milder forms of the illness can manifest itself in the form of a growth called a 'mouse' usually isolated and attached to only one hand. This form of the disease swiftly grows into the full-blown version quite rapidly exhibiting the keyboard style growth, sometimes nearly instantaneously.

Cure for the disease is not as simple to accomplish as it may at first sound. Invasive procedures such as surgical removal of the keyboard growth and/or unplugging of the computer seem only to be temporary fixes as in most cases the computer becomes mysteriously 're-plugged' and the keyboard growth rapidly reappears on the victims' fingertips once more. No matter how often these procedures are followed, the incidence of re-occurrence remains alarmingly high, almost 100%.

It is currently classified as a Social Disease, but actually that is a misnomer as it is more of an ANTI-Social Disease as real world relationships suffer while the 'virtual' relationships propagate.

Currently, there is no surefire cure and the outlook for one in the near future is dim.


Liberated text, thanks to to www.

Good luck to you, John!

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 11:49pm
Msg #294302

Re: Postitis Syndrome...

Intelligent words from your own mouth would be more revealing other than some goofy "postitis" crap that you found. Don't you have words of your own that you can share without posting some crap from the internet? LOL

JJ

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 12:08am
Msg #294305

You're not worth my time. Sorry, I know it's hard to hear. n/m

Reply by John Schenk on 7/2/09 12:11am
Msg #294307

Still no intelligent thoughts on your own...good to know. n/m

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 7/2/09 11:02am
Msg #294386

Re: Postitis Syndrome...OMG

Does this forum ever change? All of you need to pick yourself up and walk away from the keyboard from time to time. I so seldom post here or even read it anymore, months can pass, one drops by to update their profile and nothing has changed, just the names.
Get up and walk away, there is a whole wide world out there.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 11:58pm
Msg #294303

If you're going to DISH on me, do it in your OWN words...

PLEASE! I know you're a smart lady. Don't disrespect yourself by not being able to come up with your OWN responses. Conversation is supposed to be two, or more, people talking to each other. It's not quoting some crap you found on the internet, with NO backup for what you're posting.

Lay your problems with me on the line, PLEASE, and let's get them behind us! You have determined that I am some enemy, which I am not.

Good luck to you too, Becca. You like to quote things that aren't your words, and I read it was said that the beginning letters of our names indicate our personalities on the internet, so I'm sure it's true. Jovial, comes to mind for me, since MY name begins with "J." LOL

John

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 12:06am
Msg #294304

Go whack off some where else, John.

NotRot is NOT the place for your self stimulation.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/2/09 12:09am
Msg #294306

So you have no intelligent thoughts..that's good to know n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 12:32am
Msg #294310

I have plenty of intelligent thoughts, unlike you.

Shall we discuss what civil servants earn for mileage? WHY??? As a mobile notary YOU set the fees you will accept. Let go of your employee ways and open your mind to self sufficiency.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/2/09 12:50am
Msg #294311

Becca, you still don't have an intelligent thought on this..

but DISTANCE does NOT make the heart grow fonder, when you're traveling . It's simply a base rate to base travel costs on. You have to have a base, and the state mileage base is a reasonable one. It doesn't compensate you for your time, which I also posted that you had to do. Read up, Becca. You're still at a loss.

JJ

Shall we discuss what civil servants earn for mileage? WHY??? As a mobile notary YOU set the fees you will accept. Let go of your employee ways and open your mind to self sufficiency.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/2/09 12:16am
Msg #294308

Re: Go whack off some where else, John.... LMAO

You can't find a quote on an internet site to help you? PLEASE research tonight so you have a REAL comeback to me. You are really silly.

JJ

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 12:22am
Msg #294309

John, That's real. Have fun with winky tonight. n/m

Reply by John Schenk on 7/2/09 12:54am
Msg #294312

LOL Becca...learn how to carry on a conversation...

You haven't learned that yet, evidently. Wink!

JJ

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 1:03am
Msg #294314

Time to put winky to bed, John. n/m

Reply by John Schenk on 7/2/09 1:11am
Msg #294315

Nite all...see you tomorrow..hope the phones ring for you!..

We have GOT to stand TOGETHER as notaries, or we are going to get beat down.

I have been in the legal business for 29 years. My Dad, who was a trial attorney for 40 years, always told me throughout those years that the business was like a pendulum. We had good years, and Great years. As in the legal business, the pendulum swings up and down in the notary/SA business. It gets bad, and it gets good. In BAD times you have to promote yourself and work your ass off to make your business the best that it can be. In good times, the market determines the highest fee you can charge, as it actually does in bad times too.

It takes money to get legislation done, whether you like that fact or not.

JJ

Reply by Mae/TX on 7/1/09 11:03pm
Msg #294292

My first 20 miles is factored into my base rate. I charge a $25 trip charge for the next 20. Anything above is an additional $1/mile.

Don't ask me how I came up with that.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 11:13pm
Msg #294295

I think that's fairly resonable in a rural area. :-) n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/1/09 11:03pm
Msg #294293

Here's what I think John means, really. It's not about employees... it's about figuring a half decent travel charge that can coincide with tax deductions.

I think it would be better to look at the IRS mileage rate rather than state. In this case, it's the same for 2009... which is actually quite typical.

I have a VA client who, up until recently, reimbursed her agents for mileage at the full IRS rate. What this meant was that the business could take the tax deduction for those travel expenses, and not the agents/employees. Well, because of cash flow considerations, she decided that for this year she would NOT reimburse those expenses, but let the employees claim the deduction on their taxes. Most of the employees actually far prefer the method.

55 cents a mile, though, is based on a NATIONAL average for standard deductible vehicle expenses for business. Actual vehicle expenses can actually vary greatly.

It's kind of like taking a standard deduction vs. itemized. One is not always better than the other, it just depends on the individual situation.

I don't know that it's the best approach, though, for determining travel fees. Your cost per mile depends on so many factors:

MPG and fuel cost
license tags and title/taxes
loan, lease and finance charges
insurance
oil, tires, wash, parts and maintenance
depreciation
parking and permit expenses

In order to determine your exact cost per mile, it's best to go all out and do it. It's not a *bad* thing to use the mileage rate given by the IRS, but you just have to realize that your actually numbers could be far different.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/1/09 11:16pm
Msg #294296

EXACTLY...Thank you for your response Marian...




Here's what I think John means, really. It's not about employees... it's about figuring a half decent travel charge that can coincide with tax deductions.

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 1:01am
Msg #294313

Bottom line...to make a profit, set your fees...

and your travel time, unless otherwise advised by your state statutes, for a rate that constitutes your time and effort. I don't care how much the property appraiser is getting for mileage, and neither should you.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/2/09 1:13am
Msg #294316

Becca...another round for you Hon LMAO

Property appraiser? Lost me. CHEERS! Glad you're having a good night! LOL

JJ

Bottom line...to make a profit, set your fees...
Posted by Becca_FL on 7/2/09 1:01am

and your travel time, unless otherwise advised by your state statutes, for a rate that constitutes your time and effort. I don't care how much the property appraiser is getting for mileage, and neither should you.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 7/2/09 1:27am
Msg #294319

Re: Bottom line...to make a profit, set your fees...

Becca's right though. You set your fees as you see fit... preferably so that you can actually cover your expenses and make a profit.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/2/09 1:15am
Msg #294318

TROLL, or a good discussion...you decide.

I actually thought this was a pretty simple post asking a question, and stating what my rates were based upon a solid foundation of STATE reimbursement fees for mileage. How could this post turn nasty? It shouldn't have. I really don't understand why a simple conversation can't remain exactly that. All in all I thought it has been a very good thread, and I'm sorry that someone was NASTY, and failed to read the initial post. I apologize for her, and ask her to read the posts again.

I am looking forward to a WONDERFUL 3 day weekend. I'm not doing any closings, unless someone offers me an exorbitant amount of money for a closing. I pray you ALL, have a WONDERFUL Independence Day Weekend!

JJ

Reply by NC_Closer on 7/2/09 7:38am
Msg #294333

Re: TROLL, or a good discussion...you decide.

ALL the posts worth reasonable debate and discussion turn nasty. It's like having a battle of wits with a bunch of unarmed folks.

Just call me the smartass troll.

Reply by CH2inCA on 7/2/09 10:25am
Msg #294373

John, timely thread here! Thanks.

I agree, with what I think is the premise of this conversation; you have to set a base from which to calculate.
As I've mentioned before I'm a newbie, and though I try to follow much of the great advice I'm learning here I'm also learning that I have to think the whole thing through!
This thread relates so well to one of my ..duh, why didn't I think of that" moments just a few days ago.

I'm sort of a bit too eager to take on work. (sin or virtue?) So when I got a call for a RM Application, $100, only 45 miles from home, only 60 pages to print, and I'm on vacation from the 'other' job...

I said, "Put me in coach, I'm ready..." afterall how hard can it be?

I didn't consider that I live 50 miles from civilization, so then another 45 miles further out means that they do get sunshine everyday; but it has to be piped in!

I figured that darling Mr/Mrs were already aware of what they were to sign, and that they might have a reasonable grasp of the English language.

Well let's just say that page, by page we labored through that application. For a solid four hours, I looked into the eyes of a woebegone elder, who would ask me, 'Can you translate, what does it mean we don't have to purchase annuities? What are annuities?"
I'm not even sure that there is such a thing in the language of a farm labor!!

Ok, job done; I'm tired and hungry but I'm glad I've tried to help these kind slightly older than I people.

Then it hits me...to get this package to UPS, closest drop off is 80 miles away, past home then back again.

If I calculate the state's base milage; minimum wage (including travel time)...I didn't break even.

Yep, just call me 'Easy money"

:0) Lesson learned.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/2/09 11:51am
Msg #294388

LOL Good story. At least you got them signed so all was not lost.

Yes, I simply use it as a base. I could have picked any figure out of the air but that one seems reasonable to me so it's the one I go with. Won't work for everyone, but it works for me.

Have a fantastic Fourth of July weekend! If today was any better I couldn't stand it! LOL

JJ