Posted by Les_CO on 7/18/09 11:48am
Msg #296379

Things are different in Texas?

This is a true story… SS calls Texas Notary to do a signing. Everything is agreed to, docs downloaded, complete instructions sent with docs, along with return courier label. Notary (says)has been in business for years, done thousands of closings. Title gets the docs back…and on every document where on or near a signature line there is the word (SEAL) this notary stamped her Notary Stamp!? Title calls SS says WTF? The lender won’t take the NOTE with notary stamps all over it. SS calls Notary, says lender rejects docs as sent….please go back to Borrowers and re-sign ASAP! as lock is running out, and please only put your notary stamp on notarized documents. Notary is not happy, but does it. Title gets docs back and the notary did the SAME thing again!! SS calls notary says why did you do this? Twice? In this case the word (SEAL) only means “sign or signature” it’s just a left-over from times past. You do NOT put your stamp there. Notary very indignant says: “I’ve been in business 6 years…I do GREAT customer service, I’ve done flawless notary work, I’ve had NNA training, blah, blah, and blah! I ALWAYS put my notary stamp where is says (SEAL) that’s how we must do it in Texas!!” SS asks: “On the note was there a ‘Notarial Certificate’? Did you fill it out with the venue, and the borrower’s names, and did you sign it?” She says “No I never do!” She ARGUES with the SS!? And says she’s not going back, and the Lender, and the Title Company, and ESPECIALLY the SS are all idiots! Well the upshot is the SS sends the note to the borrower directly, has them sign it and courier it back to (very unhappy) title.
I’ve always heard things are different in Texas…but this in unbelievable. Would someone, please tell the NNA that the word (SEAL) on the signature line of a document is NOT where one puts their Notary Stamp. Or the paw print of a brown fur bearing aquatic mammal.

Reply by firegirl on 7/18/09 11:51am
Msg #296380

WOW. Unbelievable! n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/18/09 11:52am
Msg #296381

I've got one thing to say

That good ole NNA training, blah, blah, and blah!

Reply by PAW on 7/18/09 11:59am
Msg #296386

Re: I've got one thing to say

Not to defend the NNA, but really... I don't think even the NNA would instruct a notary to stamp every time the word SEAL appears.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/18/09 12:12pm
Msg #296395

Re: I've got one thing to say

Hi Paul! With your vast knowledge base may I ask if you know of where I could find a good explanation of the archaic but still used word SEAL on the signature line of many legal documents? I’ve heard it comes from the Latin ‘signum’ that somehow got into old English as sign, or seal?

Reply by PAW on 7/18/09 12:17pm
Msg #296399

Re: I've got one thing to say

A good explanation (in regards to legalities) can be found at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(contract_law)

Reply by Les_CO on 7/18/09 12:21pm
Msg #296401

Re: I've got one thing to say

Thanks!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 7/18/09 12:56pm
Msg #296418

Re: I've got one thing to say

I always thought the word 'seal' was to signify the place for a corporate seal stamp in the event a corporate officer was signing the docs for the corporation. At least that's what I tell inquiring borrowers...

Reply by sue_pa on 7/19/09 7:33am
Msg #296471

Re: I've got one thing to say

I'm not looking it up and it's been "a few" years since I took contract law but in PA, the use of the term "SEAL" on the signature line still has very real legal meaning (intended or not). I BELIEVE but am not positive, that it extends the time limitation on the contract for either 7 or 21 (no idea why I've got such a discrepancy in my mind).

Quite often, borrowers sign a document, hand it back to me and say something along the lines of ... here, this one says you need to notarize it ... it doesn't, it's just got the word "seal" on the line.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 7/19/09 8:27pm
Msg #296526

Sounds plausible, Sue. Black's mention first refers to

the old sealing wax, or other impressionable stuff. Then, "In current practice, a particular sign (e.g. L.S.) or the word "seal" is made in lieu of an actual seal to attest the execution of the instrument."

Since you mentioned contracts, also in Black's, a contract under seal: "For centuries before the doctrine of consideration was developed, and long before informal contracts were enforced, contracts under seal were enforced. The sealed instrument required no consideration. The required formalities are: a sufficient writing, a seal, and delivery. The seal may be actual, or impressed on the paper, or merely recited by the word "seal" or "L.S."

Can't find a reference to extension of time, but it wouldn't suprise me at all. Also, can't remember why I thought it was for a corporate seal (no surprise there either) - maybe I made it up.

Reply by Jim/AL on 7/18/09 12:00pm
Msg #296388

Great story...needed a chuckle. TX sounds WAY different..lol n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 7/18/09 12:32pm
Msg #296410

OMG! Thanks for sharing it--unbelievable.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/18/09 4:04pm
Msg #296443

Y'all stop talking about me like I'm not here!(Texas Notary)

J/k. I can believe that a new notary would indeed make that error out of nervousness, maybe?

But to argue over it?

Crazy...she is certifiable if she thinks that's accurate even after being corrected.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/18/09 10:12pm
Msg #296461

Re: Y'all stop talking about me like I'm not here!(Texas Notary)

No Brenda…It ain’t about you!…(Brings to mind an old song that says “I bet you think this song is about you”….) Sorry… but you are far to…what’s the word?.... “Seasoned?” (and maybe smart?) to make these kinds of mistakes.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/18/09 10:23pm
Msg #296462

Re: Y'all stop talking about me like I'm not here!(Texas Notary)

PS: the SS sent her an email quoting page 44 of the “Texas Notary Public Educational Information” guidelines. Hopefully it will help her in the future

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/18/09 11:20pm
Msg #296465

Yeah baby...Carly Simon...singing about

Warren Beatty...rumored to be the inspiration of that song.

You're so vain....You probably think this song is about you...........

The original "It's NOT all about you!" except that it was, though, wasn't it.

Nice memory...Love that song.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/19/09 7:46pm
Msg #296517

Re: Yeah baby...Carly Simon...singing about

I always thought it was about Mick Jagger. They had been "involved".

Reply by jba/fl on 7/23/09 10:20am
Msg #297051

Re: Yeah baby...Carly Simon...singing about

me too - Mick Jagger

Reply by MichiganAl on 7/18/09 4:35pm
Msg #296445

Thousands of closings my tush. n/m

Reply by Mae/TX on 7/18/09 11:04pm
Msg #296463

Things are different, but not that different! You are correct.

Reply by A S Johnson on 7/19/09 8:17pm
Msg #296524

in history, a "seal" was a personal indentifier Tthe word "Seal" was to indicate where to drip wax so that an individual could "seal" a documnet with "his seal" This was many times a ring, with an engraving of the signer's personal idenlifier. In the persons "office" he may have had a stamp with that "seal" .
We are not being sexist here, but remember until the 1900's our dis-staffed partners did not make contracts and sign documents. Thier "seal" would for personal letters which they would have "sealed" where the "paper" overlaped to show if someone had open it.

Reply by Les_CO on 7/20/09 4:33pm
Msg #296612

Thanks to all that posted input on the term (SEAL) and its relevance when used on the signature line.
Distaff? Now there’s a term I haven’t heard in awhile.

Reply by John Schenk on 7/20/09 10:05pm
Msg #296668

LMAO...she may be one that's not around any more. We had one around here that didn't speak much English, and I did a pretty good number of re-signs that she had done. I don't even know her name, but I was aware that I she had previously been assigned to do the closings, and of course the borrowers weren't very happy they had to sign again. Had one that actually got bumped up on the interest rate, which would have given me nightmares if I screwed up on one.

As far as where "SEAL" appears on the docs, I only see "SEAL" where the doc is to be notarized. If it's anywhere else, I guess I didn't look for it, nor would I have a reason to. Not sure where else she stamped, and not gonna look for it. It is funny though! Thanks for sharing it!

JJ