Posted by Gary Boehm on 7/29/09 12:07pm
Msg #297883

You're asking me to do what...?

Got a call for a signing for a company new to me for a signing on the 22nd. Mostly 4's and 5's so I gave them a chance and took the assignment. Then I got a call yesterday that they wanted me to go back and get a few more documents signed. I couldn't fit it in my schedule yesterday so we settled on today and he said he would send the new documents by email again.

This morning I am looking through the file(s) about 10 pages in two files. In one of the files the pages are upside down (on purpose?). All of the signature lines have 7/22/09 PRE-WRITTEN on them. I'm looking for it... I'm looking for it... betting myself a Mudslide at Applebees (Mmmm)... YEP there it is! A Signature Affidavit that they are expecting me to stamp DATED the 22nd (of course I won't). I looked back in the original files they sent me and I was right in my expectation - there wasn't one for HER in the package from the 22nd.

At first I was going to post on here posing (poling?) the question: should I just correct that page and send it back along with the others OR should I contact them first and tell them to fix it or I won't do it. Well I have received a voicemail and two emails and I have not been able to reach the borrower yet so I went ahead and sent the following to them:

"I have received the documents and I can have them sign them as-is
and send them back to you, except for the Signature/Name Affidavit.
As I'm sure you know that as a legally Commissioned Notary for
the State of Ohio I cannot back-date, sign or stamp a document
dated prior to the current date. Let me know if you want me to
correct the date on that document and send it back with the others,
or if you want to prepare it there with the proper date and forward
it to me as a replacement."

So far no response to my email...

Reply by Joan_OH on 7/29/09 1:37pm
Msg #297896

As a Notary, the only date on the document that matters to you is the date on your certificate. Just correct the notary certificate to the date of the signing. Document dates are the lender's problem. You are only notarizing that they appeared before you on the date of your certificate.

Joan-OH

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/29/09 2:49pm
Msg #297915

Exactly, Joan. I wouldn't have bothered with a phone call

I would have just changed (if needed) the date on the notary block.
From my experience, there is no need to go round and round with the TC.

Reply by Gary Boehm on 7/29/09 6:40pm
Msg #297944

Splitting hairs, I guess I took the wrong split

Ok this seemed to get better, then got decidedly worse. They called back and said no problem, go ahead and change the date on the Affidavit, we would never ask you to back date anything. Just FAX them back to us so we can fund today. Ok, I printed the docs, changed the date on the Affidavit in my block, and the date they had entered in for her (the borrowers) signature immediately above my area. Drove the 25 miles (one way) to her place of business this time. I had them sign everything and had her initial the corrected date for her signature (but not in "my" area). The borrower had also received them by email and compared them to what they had signed last time and there were just a few things different here and there, actually did not affect his final numbers anywhere. They just made some mistakes and left out her Affidavit.
They also asked the borrower to FAX the docs back and he told me he would do it. It was about a 40 minute drive back so I waited about 10 minutes and called to see if they got the FAX.

This is where things went off the rails and it was probably my fault for splitting a hair on the wrong side - but in my defense I was trying to stay on the side of what I felt was correct and fit best with my own personal integrity. He asked me if I had changed the date for her signature. I said yes because today was the date she appeared before me and signed the document, not the 22nd. We then discussed it for the remaining 30 minute drive back. The more he tried to talk me into it the less comfortable I became. We ended up agreeing (I think) that it might not matter to the Lender anyway. This was a Signature/Name Affidavit with no other "same person as" anyway.

Joan, I like where you stated "the only date on the document that matters to you is the date on your certificate" and I should have taken that attitude, covered my eyes and let her sign and date any way they wanted to as long as I was only certifying that she "appeared before me" on the date I was giving. But it still doesn't smell right or feel right.

So go ahead and flame away! I would like some opinions though - is "back dating" ONLY if YOU certify a document and enter in an earlier date, or does it further include allowing a signer to enter an earlier date even though you enter the correct one?

Reply by MichiganAl on 7/29/09 11:54pm
Msg #297978

Re: Splitting hairs, I guess I took the wrong split

Our responsibility is the notary block. Nothing more. The document date or the date the borrower writes or has pre-printed on their signature line is irrelevant.

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/29/09 6:45pm
Msg #297945

Joan is correct. n/m

Reply by Blueink_TN on 7/29/09 7:04pm
Msg #297949

Re: Joan is correct.

I agree.

Reply by MW/VA on 7/30/09 9:11am
Msg #298006

Joan is completely correct. IMO you opened a real can of worms by insisting the date of the doc be changed--we don't have that authority. Back-dating is only an issue when we're asked to back-date our notarial certificate. Some lenders have docs that are good for more than one day. An apology for the hassle you created by be in order.

Reply by ADD/NYCT on 7/30/09 10:30am
Msg #298055

I get what Gary means. It just feels wrong to witness someone telling a lie. You feel complicit.

Reply by Gary Boehm on 7/30/09 10:44am
Msg #298059

Thank you all - I stand (sit) corrected then...

But I think ADD put it in the best words: "It just feels wrong to witness someone telling a lie." and
"You feel complicit." As a Notary I feel I am honoring my highest level of integrity and that is the ultimate service I am offering to "the Public". So yes, it does feel wrong to witness a lie.

But in the future I will ignore all content no matter how blatantly false and just sign and stamp my part...