Posted by Jess/CT on 6/16/09 7:34pm
Msg #292481

Borrower refusing to disclose marital status

I just had a signing in which the borrower declined to state her marital history disclosure I left 2 voicemails for the LO and continued with the signing.

She signed the form, but declined to check whether she was not married, or married.
I notarized her signature and wrote "borrower declined to answer this question."

As we moved on, she then declined to complete a form authorizing the bank to debit her account every 2 weeks. I'm not sure if this is a requirement for her financing.?

I left another voicemail, but have not heard back yet. I left the signing with everything else completed.

Just looking for insight to see if anyone has had this experience.

Thanks!

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/16/09 8:03pm
Msg #292488

I wouldn't worry about it.

If it is absolutely required her LO or TC will call and ask. As for bi-weekly payments maybe she didn't want to do it. Again not your worry.

Reply by John Schenk on 6/16/09 8:12pm
Msg #292490

Marital status isn't OUR problem. OUR duty is to identify the borrower, or person we are notarizing the signature of.

I think you did fine by writing "borrower declined to answer this question." Not supposed to be any blanks left, and you explained why there wasn't one.

I don't worry about the bank debit forms, other than asking them if they want to set it up now or later, UNLESS it is for a property tax loan, and there are usually instructions that they MUST fill out that debit account at the time of signing to get the loan or have a higher rate of interest.

You made the calls, and hopefully exhausted very number at your disposal. Doubtful you dropped the docs yet...and I'm sure you did an email after the closing to whomever to also document what happened. Sounds like you've covered your bases, to me.

I call, email, and include on my Invoice ISSUES AT CLOSING. What more can you do if nobody answers the call? I'd wait til noon and SHIP'EM DANNO! If you gotta go back, charge'em. Wasn't anything you could control, but be damned sure you didn't fail to dot an "i" or cross a "T" on your work, or you might get docked.

JJ

Reply by Todd/OH on 6/16/09 9:05pm
Msg #292502

I agree with John - it's not your problem. I would also tend to refuse the signing since the parties aren't be completely honest about marital status - that is if it's a marital State.

Reply by John Schenk on 6/16/09 9:11pm
Msg #292504

Why would you do that? It's NOT OUR problem. We witness their siggys...not our job to determine if they are common law married and shackin up or if formally married. That's a LEGAL ISSUE, and not one the notary can opine upon. I don't care what their marital status is. If the lender wants to loan them money and their name is on the docs and they sign it that way, what difference does it matter to me? Could be a marital issue, but not one I see as a Notarial issue. JMO

JJ

Reply by Jess/CT on 6/16/09 10:16pm
Msg #292514

Thanks, I knew I could count on this forum for insight. I called and emailed to no avail.
I will add an "issues at closing" statement on my invoice as well.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/16/09 10:18pm
Msg #292515

Regarding her refusal to indicate marital status - that's her call, and her fault if the loan doesn't fund because of that. Not your problem - you did your job. In cases like that, I just attach a Post-It that says the BO declined (not refused) to sign or provide the requested info. I don't know if marital status is an issue in CT; I know it's not in NY.

As far as the bank debit - that's usually optional, and the form should have said so. Either way, it's not your problem - her choice, she has to live with the outcome. Again, a Post-It attached saying she declined to sign covers your end of it, If the form is clearly optional (and all I've seen so far are), you don't have to explain - just send it back unsigned.

Reply by Kate/CA on 6/16/09 11:08pm
Msg #292519

Regarding the marital status form, I would of let her write that she declined to answer on the form/ NA or whatever. Then notarize it. Otherwise you are notarizing a form with blanks. Post-its

On the form authorization to debit her account, I just have the borrowers write decline at the bottom and initial, a couple of the title companies have told me to do this. Never had a problem.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 6/16/09 11:10pm
Msg #292520

IMO, borrowers don't get to pick and choose what docs they want to sign. If its in the pkg, chances are they want it signed. If they don't, they are risking their loan not funding. But, I agree with the rest, NOT our problem. Let LO or title deal with it.

Reply by DonR_NYC on 6/17/09 7:26am
Msg #292530

LINDA WROTE: "IMO, borrowers don't get to pick and choose what docs they want to sign."


I beg to differ with you. The access to the BO's bank account for debit of the payment every two weeks is OPTIONAL. It has no bearing on whether the loan funds. It is a convenience that the lender is offering the BO. I have never seen it as mandatory.

By your thinking if a document was in there that stated "your first born shall be subjected to servitude until the loan is satisfied" the BO must sign it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/17/09 7:29am
Msg #292531

I beg to differ here, too, but with Don...

Just a note here - I've had loans where the auto-debit is a condition of the loan - they MUST sign up for this to qualify for the loan program they were put in...I do agree that sometimes this form is just part and parcel of the package and is up to the borrower to sign up for or not, but it's also up to the borrower to be sure that the auto-debit is not required by their lender.

My .02

Reply by DonR_NYC on 6/17/09 7:41am
Msg #292532

Linda I should have added that in my 15+ years of loans I never seen it mandatory in NYS but you are correct thatr there may been certain types of loans that require it. BUT the idea that any doc MUST be signed and that the BO has no choice is dead wrong.

Sorry for the ommission.

Reply by Jess/CT on 6/17/09 8:53am
Msg #292539

UPDATE

I spoke with the LO this morning. The Bi-Weekly agreement is a requirement for the loan to be approved. The LO explained this to the BO, if only the LO would have answered the phone/email last night we may resolved it then!
As a result, I am going to see the BO again today for an addtional fee.

Reply by Julie/MI on 6/17/09 2:31pm
Msg #292589

disagree Don

I have many loans that the borrower must sign the authorization for the debit or the loan cannot fund. They are getting a discounted interest rate.

I agree that some Chase or Countrywide/BOA have some forms that are optional, but 5/3, for example has some programs that it IS a requirement.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/17/09 2:52pm
Msg #292592

Still not our responsibility to force him/her to sign it. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 6/17/09 2:57pm
Msg #292593

Re: Still not our responsibility to force him/her to sign it.

IMO it's not about force. If it's a condition of the loan they either sign it or ditch the loan.
Also, IMO, we do have a responsibility to have all loan docs executed, not just the one's that require notarization. The responsibilities we accept as NSA's are more than "just a notary".

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/17/09 3:02pm
Msg #292595

And you know it's a condition how?

I present the documents and if there is an issue I refer them to their LO or to the TC. If neither answers, then we continue on and at the end I ask one more time if they have reconsidered. If they sign the doc in question good, if not I did my part and then we are done.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/17/09 2:59pm
Msg #292594

Re: Still not our responsibility to force him/her to sign it.

True..but if it's a condition of their loan they need to know that - or contact the loan officer to make sure it's okay NOT to sign...the ones I've had it's been made clear that they MUST sign that form.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 6/17/09 6:11pm
Msg #292614

Absolutely Julie

I've only done one 5/3 that it was not required and they were paying a higher rate of interest (if I recall, about 1/4% more). And even the 5/3 it is only obligatory for the first year, then you can cancel the automatic deduction.