Posted by NC_Closer on 6/29/09 3:16pm
Msg #293975

DOES low pay = less service??

This is an excerpt from an earlier posting Msg #293820 posted by Sue_PA. My response to this is that regardless of the fee IF I ACCEPT the assignment then each closing will be treated with the same due dilligence. Feedback please.


"That said, you basically said last week you pay $100 (you did some quick back peddling when it was suggested you aren't paying for "experience" as you state with your 50+% error rate) you also get what you pay for ... in my case, and I do have experience. If I take a $50 order (I have one today) they will not get anything from me other than a loan package that has names "signed as typed". If there is ANY type issue it won't be worked out on my time/dime. My next appt. after that one is paying me $175. If I see any type issues or problems prior to, during or after the closing you can be assured my client will know right away."

Reply by Prosperity on 6/29/09 3:38pm
Msg #293976

My service does not change based on the fee that I accept. If I'm not willing to provide top service, then I don't accept the signing.

Reply by Frank/NC on 6/29/09 3:56pm
Msg #293977

Why would anyone ever adjust the quality of their service dependent on the fee they accept? Secondly, why would you accept $50 signings and defeat the purpose that you set out to do and that is to make money. No matter the size of the package, there is no profit in accepting the low ball fees. It sometimes appears to me that we have far too many people in this business who lack business experience and that in itself defeats our goal of professionalism and the ultimate goal of getting paid higher fees for that professional service.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/30/09 7:54am
Msg #294019

...Secondly, why would you accept $50 signings and defeat the purpose that you set out to do and that is to make money. No matter the size of the package, there is no profit in accepting the low ball fees...

I've said for years that I run my business differently than so many others here seem to do. How in the world can you assume that I didn't make any money on the $50 order? Initial phone call to confirmation fax was 25 minutes TOTAL time ... does that happen often? No. Do I take many $50 orders? No. But sometimes it does pay off if you know what the order entails up front and it is scheduled properly with timing and distance. I had 3 orders yesterday ... $50, $150, $175. Job per job I made the best "return" on the $150 order, next teh $50 and although the $175 put the most in my pocket, that one was the least "cost effective"for me.

Reply by John/CT on 6/29/09 4:24pm
Msg #293978

Base Pay = Base Service.

By that I mean error-free, timely, professional, etc. service. This also means promptly dropping-off dox in the UPS/FDX drop box, with M-F pickup @ 6:30 and 7:15, respectively ... even if the pickup has already occurred.

Premium Pay = Premium Service, which means in addition to "Base Service", I'll go out of my way (about 5 miles) to the UPS/FDX station where dox will be dispatched at 8:30 and 9:00 o'clock, respecively, if I can make it in time. Same for Saturdays. I'll even do this for my good-paying regulars as a value-add at no extra cost.

No such thing as "Low Pay" for me.

Reply by Calnotary on 6/29/09 5:11pm
Msg #293980

Re: Base Pay = Base Service.

I agree with John 110%. Base pay, base service. Some base pay SS wants me to drop package just after the signing and then since they wanted fax backs they wanted me to copy ALL the notarized in fed ex kinkos and then fax them from my office. NO WAY! this is a business and when you do a signing for your base fee there is no more room for extra work . You want decent work you have to pay a decent fee too.

I have clients that they pay a decent fee, and there have been times that we need credible witnesses because the borrower does not have ID and we have to drive to other side of the town to get the CW and I never charge extra to my clients. Also dropping packages next day in my local title companies/escrows, again no extra charge; in those I am getting a very good fee.

Reply by MichiganAl on 6/30/09 1:24am
Msg #294009

Re: Base Pay = Base Service.

Minimum Pay - Drive out of my usual service area for a closing? Nope
Premium Pay - Sure thing
Minimum Pay - Fax backs as part of the service for free? Nope
Premium Pay - Need fax backs, no problem.
Minimum Pay - Drop the package off promptly at a local box, yes. Missed the pickup, oh well.
Premium Pay - Drive several miles out of the way to get to a later pick up box, absolutely.
Minimum Pay - Need to make a second quick trip for some reason, that'll be an additional trip fee.
Premium Pay - Happy to do it as part of the service.
Minimum Pay - Wait an hour for a borrower to show up? Nope, gotta go.
Premium Pay - Sure, what's on T.V.?
Minimum Pay - 4 or 5 a.m. appointment (yes, I've had a few)? Sure, what ya gonna add to my fee? Nothing? Sorry, no can do.
Premium Pay - I'll be there with donuts.

Etc., etc., etc.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/30/09 1:46am
Msg #294010

That pretty well sums it up!

Most of this just comes down to good ol' common(?) sense - and good business sense. In nearly all things in life, we get what we pay for. Conversely, if we undervalue ourselves, others will, too.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/29/09 9:43pm
Msg #294002

EVERY business works this way.

Customer service at the Hyundai dealership - customer service at the Mercedes dealership.
Lunch at Hardees- lunch at the country club.
New dress from Chicos - new dress from Talbot.



You pay me the minimum, you get exactly what you ask for ... a perfectly executed loan package. If you pay me more than minimum, I'll use my eyes, ears and brains. There are quite a few companies that want you to point and sign and nothing more- that's what they pay for. There are quite a few companies that want you to be sure the loan closes and that entails spotting and reporting problems.

Not sure how you don't grasp this ... but you say in the other thread that you wouldn't turn an order back to a client when you can't find someone qualified ... so it seems quality doesn't matter anyway.

Reply by Becca_FL on 6/29/09 9:56pm
Msg #294003

Sue, for once in my life, I take offense to your post.

I LOVE Chico's and it ain't cheap. The difference between Chico's and Tallbot's is the dry cleaning bill. I quit buying dry clean only clothing six years ago and have saved more bottom line because of it. I've been a Chico's passport member since 2003 and I LOVE the pieces I have that do not require dry cleaning.

Reply by MW/VA on 6/30/09 6:28am
Msg #294016

Re: Sue, for once in my life, I take offense to your post.

Here's a tip--very few things really need dry cleaning. It's a labelling thing from the mfg. They get off easy & don't have to provide any care instructions. I haven't sent anything to the dry cleaners in many years because I can't handle the chemicals.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/30/09 10:12am
Msg #294029

Who is Chico and why does he require a passport? n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/09 10:32am
Msg #294036

Re: Who is Chico and why does he require a passport?

Chico and the Man was an American sitcom which ran on NBC from September 13, 1974 to July 21, 1978, starring Jack Albertson as Ed Brown (The Man), the cantankerous owner of a run down garage in an East Los Angeles barrio, and Freddie Prinze as Chico Rodriguez, an upbeat, optimistic Chicano street kid who comes in looking for a job. It was the first U.S. television series set in a Mexican-American neighborhood.[citation needed]

Ed does not want Chico's help and distrusts all Chicanos. A hard-drinking widower, he stubbornly refuses to fit in with the changing neighborhood and has alienated most of the people who live around him. Ed uses ethnic slurs and berates Chico in an effort to get him to leave. Yet Chico sees something in Ed, and sneaks back in at night to clean up the garage and move into an old van that Ed has parked inside. As Ed sees all the effort Chico has put in, he begins to warm to Chico. Eventually, Ed grew to see Chico as a son, although he will deny this on many occasions.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/30/09 11:02am
Msg #294039

www.clubchico.com n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 6/30/09 11:14am
Msg #294040

NO not THAT club chico, Cali! This one http://www.chicos.com n/m

Reply by Philip Johnson on 6/30/09 11:20am
Msg #294041

Good night, now this guy runs a club too.

So I have this straight, this guy runs a club in which women needs passports to enter. What a player, a true role model for the rest of us.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/30/09 11:58am
Msg #294049

I like mine better n/m

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 7:48am
Msg #294018

Good morning all

A couple notes... Michigan's post sums it up nicely.

While yes service certainly will vary with price, you don't go to the Country Club to order a burger to go. So, whereas a $50 closing with overnight docs results in a "perfectly executed loan package" I believe that $100 closing with edocs should result in the same. (Again, you know the requirements ie travel, fax backs, etc when you take the assignment so no need to list them again). Qualifying difference in $50 vs $175 is the Signing Service. Keeping in mind that Title companies hire signing agencies to provide a service for them.

Quick story: It's last day of the month. A closing request comes in with docs attached. Closing time is flexible and closing location is at a local business. A local search on NR & SA. Two local closers (5 miles or less) have same qualifications. Call the first and I'm quoted $175.00 Call the second, quoted $85.00. We went with the second closer and she produced a perfectly executed package.

Footnote: We have recently added the disclaimer that all notary errors will result in fee reduction. Viola! No errors last week. Go figure.

Last note: In response to Sue's comment regarding whether quality matters when faced with choosing between quality and turning back an order to your client. When you have to choose, then you choose getting the package signed. Repercussion of not getting that loan signed:

1. Lender charges a redraw fee. Standard is $200.00. Broker or borrower is paying it.
2. Loan officer loses his bonus status for the month.
3. Title company has to prepare new hud and title docs and scan/email new docs.
4. Borrower could potentially lose their rate lock.
5. If loan is pushed to the next month then closing costs for borrower have now been increased greatly due to 30 days per diem int. and another month of escrow. That could result in lots of money being brought to closing which could kill the deal altogether.
6. If the loan doesn't fund, then NOBODY gets paid.

Best case scenerio, you get lucky and receive a perfectly executed package. Worst case, you've got 3 days to get it cleaned up.

Last note, really. Everyone is in business to make money. Lender, Title, Signing Servce, Signing Agent.

Reply by CF on 6/30/09 8:30am
Msg #294020

As far as I am concerned: you lucked out! It will not always happen for you...you will loose money over time buy hiring low-ball Notaries. From the sounds of it the expense of a re-sign does not fall on your shoulders...why should you care? You are probably making more off the order than the Notary at $85.00 and laughing all the way to the bank. For the record...I would be too! I did an online search...made 3 phone calls...and made more than the person executing the loan package. You worked for 15 minutes on the order and made more than the Notary working over 2 hours on it.

Notaries that low-ball get a clue....it is joke and the laugh is on you!!!!

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 8:59am
Msg #294022

You have no clue what expense are incurred by a signing agency. $1,000,000 E&O policies aren't cheap for starters. And if you don't think that the SS is responsible for notary errors then you are mistaken. Do you REALLY think a title company is going eat the cost of notary errors??? That's why we now charge notaries back for their errors. And Full resigns are always a result of lender/broker/title error. Not notary error. And profit is not a dirty word. Aren't you in business to make money? I know I am. Bottom line, just like we determine what the signing fee will be offered, you determine what signing fee you will accept.

Lastly, believe it or not, higher fee does not guarantee error free work. TRUST ME on this one.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/09 9:10am
Msg #294024

TRUST ME on this one.

No, I do't think I will.
You can take off your sheeps clothing, lol.
I've read your posts and find them ludicrous.

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 9:34am
Msg #294026

Re: TRUST ME on this one.

So which signing agency do you work for? Title company? Lender? Broker?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/09 10:05am
Msg #294028

A better question

Which signing agency do you work for? Title company? Lender? Broker?

You seem to be the only one hiding your true identity here.

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 10:16am
Msg #294031

Re: A better question

It's my prerogative just as it's everyone else's. Simple as that.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/09 10:27am
Msg #294034

Yes, it is a trolls prerogative to remain anonymous, lol n/m

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 10:29am
Msg #294035

Re: Yes, it is a trolls prerogative to remain anonymous, lol

Ouch! LOL!!!

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 8:59am
Msg #294023

You have no clue what expense are incurred by a signing agency. $1,000,000 E&O policies aren't cheap for starters. And if you don't think that the SS is responsible for notary errors then you are mistaken. Do you REALLY think a title company is going eat the cost of notary errors??? That's why we now charge notaries back for their errors. And Full resigns are always a result of lender/broker/title error. Not notary error. And profit is not a dirty word. Aren't you in business to make money? I know I am. Bottom line, just like we determine what the signing fee will be offered, you determine what signing fee you will accept.

Lastly, believe it or not, higher fee does not guarantee error free work. TRUST ME on this one.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/30/09 10:59am
Msg #294037

"That's why we now charge notaries back for their errors."

And how much extra do you pay the notary when you or the TC make a mistake?

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 11:33am
Msg #294045

Depends. Reprint fee $25 is the most common. Obviously any extra trips will be paid as a trip fee which is $50. Correcting dates, spelling etc is typically included in the fee. The companies and attorneys we work with seem to have less of this than some others that I personally have closed for.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/30/09 11:56am
Msg #294048

That's not paying extra, that's compensation for the additional work involved.

You don't get less from the TC if the notary makes a mistake, so deductions from the signing agent's fee means more money ends up in your pocket. So if you give the signing agent the wrong phone number or incorrect address, or the signing agent has to spend more time at the signing making corrections on the docs, but doesn't actually have to make a second trip because they're good enough at their job to have caught them the first time, or when the signing agent receives docs at 6pm for a 6 pm signing, how much more do you pay them?

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 12:10pm
Msg #294051

Since we confirm time and location with the borrowers ourselves wrong addresses/phone numbers are not an issue. Occassional late docs arrivals are part of the business so I'm doubtful many if any companies will compensate for that. If you know different please share. Second trips are in reference to a document actually being altered and requiring new signatures. If it's something that the signing agent should have known then that would be a notary error. That's just due dilligence. Otherwise all signings fees would be $50.

Reply by CF on 6/30/09 12:27pm
Msg #294056

NC-Closer- you were the one that came on

here boasting that you got a perfectly executed package for a low-ball rate. I, simply, called you out on it! Let me tell you 1million in E &O is probably around $5,000.00 per year....give me a break that is a fixed cost of your business! You sitting around and doing NOTHING but making a few phone calls, forwarding some loan docs, and babysitting unqualified Notaries has a lot to be desired for the people that are actually out there making EVERYONE their cut!!!

Profitability is not a bad word; it is the language that I speak. However, I do not let Signing Services make their profit from the sweat off my back! All I can say is that you have a lot of nerve and it just goes to show that there are a lot of people out there with the business sense of a moran!!!

Notaries if you want to keep making people money of this caliber and limit your income potential...then by all means accept orders from companies that have no respect for the people that make them their cut (which could be more than they pay you) by accepting low fee.

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 2:12pm
Msg #294070

Re: NC-Closer- you were the one that came on

How do you suppose that $5,000 insurance policy gets paid? More and more title/lenders are requring such policies and somebody's has to pay that bill. Any MORAN could tell you that you need to bring in more money than you pay out (that's called profit) or you can't pay the bills.

The example of the two EQUALLY QUALIFIED signing agents was this. One quotes $175. One quotes $85. THEY quoted their fees. Which one are you going to choose??? Any MORAN can answer that question. The point of that was the huge variance in the two fees.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/30/09 3:17pm
Msg #294081

Re: NC-Closer- you were the one that came on

What's a moran?

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/30/09 3:44pm
Msg #294082

Duh, it's Joanie from "Happy Days"

http://www.erinmoranofficialwebsite.com/

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/30/09 1:39pm
Msg #294061

"Occassional late docs arrivals are part of the business"

So are notary errors. Yet you think it's perfectly fine to compensate yourself for dealing with those.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/09 12:12pm
Msg #294053

Exactly Cali

It seems that the notary bears all responsibility in these situations.

The scales are not balanced in this accountability.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/1/09 2:35am
Msg #294148

Re: Exactly Cali

I think this person is choosing to not get it, just as (s)he chose to misinterpret what sue was saying. You have to run all those circumstances through the right kind of filter to justify that attitude. I think some of folks have no clue what it's like out there. Makes me really appreciate the ones who do.

Reply by CH2inCA on 6/30/09 11:01am
Msg #294038

Define errors.

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 11:35am
Msg #294046

Missed signature, initial, notary stamp.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/30/09 11:59am
Msg #294050

It's Seal... notary SEAL.

Not all seals are stamps.

Reply by CH2inCA on 6/30/09 2:07pm
Msg #294069

Thanks for the response; just wondering what dasterly deeds were considered fee jerking offenses. New to this; I do appreciate the tête-à-tête.

Interesting...the different points of view.

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 2:24pm
Msg #294075

Here's my advice. If you disagree with the Supreme Court of Notaries on this site (and you will very quickly know those I'm speaking of) then keep your comments to yourself!! Refer your questions using the private messaging to one of the many other reasonable folks and I'm sure they'll graciously assist you.

Reply by CH2inCA on 6/30/09 2:50pm
Msg #294079

:0)
Well thank you if that bit of advice was directed toward me. I appreciate it; but this ol' girl has been leading with her chin for too long to quietly ask questions behind the scenes.
I get verbally knocked on my bottom; but I'll stand up again, dust myself off and ask again.

I've read long enough now to see the pattern of which members are 'real' and which ones are just educated beyond their intelligence.

Thanks for the advice though.

Reply by docs1954CA on 6/30/09 4:59pm
Msg #294092

Hey NC_Closer...What's a Moran? LOL...You??? n/m

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 5:10pm
Msg #294094

Re: Hey docs1954CA..uh, that would be you.

Why don't you ask CF from MI since I was quoting from their post moron!! Or did you miss that sacrasm!


"Profitability is not a bad word; it is the language that I speak. However, I do not let Signing Services make their profit from the sweat off my back! All I can say is that you have a lot of nerve and it just goes to show that there are a lot of people out there with the business sense of a moran"

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 5:30pm
Msg #294100

Re: Hey NC_Closer...What's a Moran? LOL...You???

One last thing....it's so typical that not one of you actually responded to the post itself. It's so typical that the subject matter is skirted and the majority of you posters would rather rant, rave, insult, complain, etc. etc. than address the reality of the business. The $300 closings from the subprime market are a thing of the past. Get used to it. Title companies HIRE signing companies so they don't have to deal directly with signing agents. Wonder why?????? Signing agencies earn every dime!!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/09 5:37pm
Msg #294102

not one of you actually responded to the post itself

Are you serious? Maybe you should re-read, starting from the beginning.
I recall a few posts where your query was answered .
Maybe you'd be better off trolling elsewhere.
You surely are a flamer!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/09 5:44pm
Msg #294105

The YerATroll.

YerATrolls are those whining forumites who devote a tremendous amount of time and energy complaining about the tremendous amount of time an energy expended by Troll Bashers and Angry Forumites on the practice of troll-hunting.
A self-righteous and hypocritical breed, YerATrolls spend all their time pointing fingers at everyone but trolls, petulantly demanding that their opinions be granted the significance the YerATroll believes they deserve.
YerATrolls often start threads excoriating others for troll-hunting, all the while completely oblivious to the fact that they're engaging in trolling by picking fights with everyone else.
One of the most ill-tempered of troll species, YerATrolls are characterized by a childish need for attention disguised as cynical nobility and pretensions of being "above it all."

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 8:11pm
Msg #294126

Re: not one of you actually responded to the post itself

But at the end of the day....you work for me. (Actually, not you personaly, I would't call you.) I don't work for you. Enough said.

Flamer, Realist...EMPLOYED.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/30/09 8:32pm
Msg #294129

Oh - so you have a JOB? n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/30/09 8:57pm
Msg #294134

Flamer, Realist...EMPLOYED.

Good for you, you have a J-O-B.
Personally, I am so good at most everything, so I have no need for an employer.
I have a business. Actually, several businesses. All successful.
And I don't have to be a flamer or 'employed'. Just a realist.
Hey, look, we have something in common.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/30/09 6:08pm
Msg #294113

Great SOP CH2inCA! Most profound...

"I've read long enough now to see the pattern of which members are 'real' and which ones are just educated beyond their intelligence."

Sparring with a troll is below you right now - too many identities in play right now. This person is in the running for an Oscar or some equivalent for a Sybil type performance...ROFLMAO!

Reply by NC_Closer on 6/30/09 8:14pm
Msg #294127

Re: Great SOP CH2inCA! Most profound...

Are these folks predictable or what? TOO FUNNY!!!!! TOO SAD!!!!

Reply by jba/fl on 7/1/09 12:56am
Msg #294147

Re: Great SOP CH2inCA! Most profound...

Disagreeing with my opinions isn't necessarily bad: it can provide an opportunity for everyone to learn something.