Posted by Marian_in_CA on 6/2/09 12:28am
Msg #290755

Need to vent about STUPID notaries!

Okay, so in California we have this tiny little law that went in to effect 18 months ago, right? I don't get it, why are some of these notaries still using old jurat forms?

I was at an appointment tonight, so fun...a great group of people. Turns out I was the second notary they've had for this purpose in so many weeks. They had to have signatures on letters notarized again because their lawyer wanted changes in the letters themselves. Anyway... it's a good thing, because the previous notary used old jurat forms fir all of them... the kind that was outlawed as of January 1, 2008.

I've been in this part of town just a couple of months now and I've already got two local notaries on my "Don't ever refer to them EVER" list. This makes three. I'm actually getting scared. I know I'm a bit...anal retentive (I really hate that term, thank you very much Mr. Freud) but really. If you can't be responsible enough to pay attention to State law that is over a year old, what business do you have notarizing anyone's signature?

I want to think it's an innocent mistake... I do. But 18 months later? I mean, how dumb and irresponsible are you not to, at the very least, read the newsletters from the SOS that emphasize this? How do you have you head stuck so far in the ground that you haven't heard about this change?

Okay... I feel better... but dang it, people.

I swear, I'm about to contact my assemblyman to ask him to introduce a bill to raise the exam's passing score from 70% to 85%... I'll even take 80%! Too many idiots are managing to pass this exam through dumb luck after cramming a 6-hour seminar in to their heads, after which they promptly forget everything and never read the handbook again.

It makes me sad.

Rant over... sorry you had to read my drivel.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/2/09 2:18am
Msg #290757

Feel better now? Some just don't and won't get it.

Your points are valid and I can understand feelings of wondering why it all matters. Just hang in there - incompetency will always be with us I'm afraid, also not giving a darn is prevalent. I'm glad you aren't a slacker and do give a darn.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/2/09 3:04am
Msg #290760

Re: Feel better now? Some just don't and won't get it.

Oh, I'm fine... it's just irritating to know these people are doing this. I honestly don't think that they realize what kind of liability issues they deal with (in California of course).

What really scares me is that is the third notary in 2 months that I've come in after to either clean up a mess or learn they did something wrong or irresponsible.

I think it's because I see this as a profession and others see it as a necessary part of their job.


Of course I realize that a lot of other states have it far worse than CA. Still doesn't make it okay to be a dunderhead of a notary and not pay attention.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/2/09 2:57am
Msg #290759

I sooo share your pain!!! Happens too often to count, sadly.

I think it just doesn't occur to some people that things in the notary world might change. For most, being a notary is something that's a sideline to doing their "real" job -- just a prerequisite, an obtacle, if you will. Staying on top of changes is the farthest thing from their mind. What amazes me are the ones who have been notaries through multiple renewals, but still don't have a clue about what they're doing.

As for raising the passing grade... I couldn't agree more! (I think 80% is a reasonably compromise.) It could raise more revenue for the state, but some might worry that it would reduce the ranks of notaries TOO much. But when you consider all the potential consequences of notary errors (fraud, etc.), it seems well worth it.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/2/09 6:14am
Msg #290764

along the same lines ...

I use my venue stamp EVERY day ... mostly on title docs. I always wonder if I am the only one. If every affidavit (without some semblance of a preprinted venue) came back w/the venue either stamped or hand written, you'd think the form would change but it doesn't ... so every time I stamp away I wonder how many go back with no venues.

Reply by Maureen_nh on 6/2/09 9:23am
Msg #290780

Re: along the same lines ...

I have often wondered if there are states that do not require a venue for that very reason.
We do get affs and jurats in the same pkg that are completely different from page to page-a bit mind boggling until you get used to it.
Are there any states that do not require a venue in their notary certificates?

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/2/09 11:49am
Msg #290797

Re: along the same lines ...

*Are there any states that do not require a venue in their notary certificates?*

I don't think so.

I think it has to do with those who drafts the documents. Many times the *property* venue is stated at the top of the affidavit (State of ____, and County of ____) and it is assumed by document drafters (I guess because of reasons where notaries were historically in the same county where the docs were signed) that the property venue will be the same. Many times it isn’t so; you don’t mess with the property venue, you come down and add a venue to right before the notary certificate.

I have a venue stamp. As an NSA I use it frequently. Can’t figure out how you can do without one.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/2/09 12:03pm
Msg #290804

I have a whole bag of stamps!

Lots of little stamps for various circumstances that might come up. I always try to avoid using a loose certificate if I can, but I don't like to leave things messy, either.

I notarized the signature of a another notary recently and I pulled out my bag of stamps to get my seal and she started laughing. I let her look at my stamps and she must have said 5 or 6 times, "I need one of those, too!" or "You're like the Eagle Scout of notaries!"

I think I've got about 10 different stamps that I've collected.

And that doesn't include the PDF stamp tool I use all the time with loan docs before I print them. I do not like using loose certs with loan docs.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/2/09 1:03pm
Msg #290817

Re: I have a whole bag of stamps!

*I have a whole bag of stamps!*

Sssshhhh....she means, "Notary Nerd Pack". It's okay, Marian. I am known as the "Notary Police" where I work.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/2/09 12:05pm
Msg #290805

Re: along the same lines ...

"Can’t figure out how you can do without one. "

Well, I can...handwrite. Or attach own ack/jurat that one knows is correct. I can see at a glance if the package is ripe with errors, and can print off the number of acks & jurats I will need already filled in, ready to sign for that package. Most Mtgs. are FL compliant, but a lot of the rest are a joke. I know where I'm going so I can do venue, I have checked spelling of names so I can insert in advance, and I know what date I'm going to be there and I ask what ID they will be showing me, therefore, I can just sign/stamp. In case of Quit Claims and other recordable docs, I can handwrite but most can have all info inserted prior to going to appt, and I do just that.

What - 10 mins. vs. adding a bunch of wording that makes it FL compliant at the table? Learned that lesson long ago.

Reply by Kimberly Williams on 6/2/09 6:46am
Msg #290766

I also am "anal retentive"; however, I like to say that I am neurotic instead. ; lol. I may be new to the loan signing biz, but I completely get your rant. AND I agree. Smile, things will look up! Everyone will call you instead of the others just because you GET it.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/2/09 6:49am
Msg #290767

you are new !!!

...Everyone will call you instead of the others just because you GET it....

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/2/09 6:15pm
Msg #290884

Don't we wish...!!! ;>) n/m

Reply by LynnNC on 6/2/09 7:17am
Msg #290769

At least in CA the SOS sends newsletters! In NC there is NO communication whatsoever from the SOS to notaries. They post changes on their website and and every few years update the notary manual, without notice. The manual is not on their website, but sold for a profit by the UNC School of Government.

Reply by WDMD on 6/2/09 7:26am
Msg #290770

'In NC there is NO communication whatsoever from the SOS to notaries."

The same is true in Maryland. I'm probably going to get hammered for this, but you know what? I kinda feel it is MY responsibility to keep up on any changes. I check frequently on the SOS website and I also watch what the general assembly is doing.

As for those who don't know or follow the rules I don't worry about it. If they get away with it I don't care, I just do what I know is right.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 6/2/09 7:49am
Msg #290773

<< In NC there is NO communication whatsoever from the SOS to notaries. >>

Same in Virginia. In fact, the SOC has changed the notary application to where you have to initial the statement that YOU will be responsible for checking the VA SOC website for updates posted every July 1st.

And getting them to answer a question is a total joke and/or exercise in futility!

Reply by MW/VA on 6/2/09 7:49am
Msg #290774

This is one of those "double edged sword" issues. Many states, including VA, have no education or training requirements. There is no direction on how to get the state's handbook, a stamp, etc. Then on the other side of the coin, we aren't happy with XYZ who goes the other extreme by selling certification, bgc, yada, yada, yada, yada.
I don't know where I'd be in this business if I didn't participate in forums like this where I gain so much knowledge. We don't need to wonder why we get the attitude "just a notary"--there are so many that don't have a clue. I do believe that those of us who take this seriously & take responsibility to learn the trade are the exception, rather than the rule. It's goes back to the basic principle that the only person I can take responsibility for is myself.
Kudos to all who advocate excellence!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/2/09 11:38am
Msg #290796

I totally agree... and I'm really glad that at least our SOS gives us some kind of direction. That makes it ever MORE irresponsible if you ask me... there's really no excuse. I have boat loads of sympathy for those of you in other states with little direction... and even less stringent qualifying standards. I mean... it's downright scary. It's no wonder that the general public gets irritated with us for charging for "just putting a stamp on something".

In CA, they can say they didn't know about changes... which is baloney because the SOS has sent two annual newsletters about this since the change. And if they say they didn't get it, they have the responsibility to look it up on the website where it is published for all to see. Even more... if they didn't get it because they moved and the SOS doesn't have their correct address... that's their own fault, too... because one of the BIG rules about being a CA notary is that you must notify them of a new address within 30 days, by certified mail. Not doing so is worth up to $500 in fines. That's a basic question on the exam, too.

I was once told I take this job too seriously. Really? I don't think so... I mean, I had to file a bond, take and oath and am under all kinds of strict regulatory rules with all kinds of daunting threats of fines and jail time. I think a lot of CA notaries don't pay attention to that and just "do notaries" like it were nothing of consequence.

Sure, the essential functions of the job are easy... but if you think about it, a Judge's job seems rather easy, too... I mean, he just sits at a bench in a robe all day listening to people drone on and on and occasionally makes decisions that affect people's lives. How hard can it be?

Not that I'm comparing being a notary to be a judge... I mean the public viewpoint of the job vs. the reality of it. The stupid notaries behave as the public expects them to behave because that's how they see what they do as well. The public doesn't care that I have laws to follow...they just want the darn stamp.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/2/09 6:37pm
Msg #290886

"I was once told I take this job too seriously. Really? I don't think so... I mean, I had to file a bond, take and oath and am under all kinds of strict regulatory rules with all kinds of daunting threats of fines and jail time. I think a lot of CA notaries don't pay attention to that and just "do notaries" like it were nothing of consequence. "

"...like it were nothing of consequence." It bears repeating, and I think that's the part that people don't get. With a notary stamp in hand, a great deal of fraud can be facilitated - or allowed to happen, if care isn't taken. Even with all the precautions required in CA, I've heard of too many cases where property has been stolen right out from under someone by fraudulent Grant Deeds being filed. This requires either complicity or incompetence on the part of a notary - or extreme efforts on the part of the person(s) intending to defraud.

We may not be able to prevent every attempt at fraud, but by doing our job right, we can either prevent it or make it much more difficult. And to take it one step further, every document that we notarize, not just recordables, has the potential of ending up in a court of law at some point. If not, there wouldn't be any need to have it notarized.

Naturally, we're all preaching to the choir here. We're not going to change the world by posting on a notary message board, but I imagine we've all heard the analogies about a drop in a pond creating a big wave, or a butterfly flapping it's wings in South America changing the weather north of the equator, etc. [Well, one can dream, no? ]

Reply by Gary_CA on 6/2/09 10:23am
Msg #290789

SMART California Notary, enjoys long walks on the beach

the smell of the redwood forest, quiet evenings by the fire in our California freezing cold June weather, hot dogs at the ball game. Hopeless romantic, believes SS will pay him more for better service.

Available any time mid-month for venting, chatting, exchanging ideas, or more...perhaps even to teach you how to properly "do a notary"

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/2/09 11:52am
Msg #290799

Re: SMART California Notary, enjoys long walks on the beach

**perhaps even to teach you how to properly "do a notary"**

Oh...no...you....did....not.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 6/2/09 11:55am
Msg #290803

LOL!! Brenda the first time I read that...

my mind did not even go there! Oh dear!

Very funny, Gary!

Reply by jba/fl on 6/2/09 12:06pm
Msg #290806

Re: SMART California Notary, enjoys long walks on the beach

Maybe, on the beach?

Reply by Gary_CA on 6/2/09 12:20pm
Msg #290809

Nah, not now, too dang cold

Our beach right now is 55 degrees with a fog chill factor of about 45. The water is 65 all year long so this is actually the best time to swim but not for beach blanket bingo... it's cold enough to hinder performance.

"The coldest winter I ever spent was the summer I spent in San Francisco" --Mark Twain

Reply by janCA on 6/2/09 1:10pm
Msg #290818

Re: Nah, not now, too dang cold

My daughter lives in SF and she said on Sunday it was 55 and here in the valley, it was 95. I'd trade that weather for anything. I hate the heat!! But do love the warm summer nights.

Reply by RickinVA on 6/2/09 1:36pm
Msg #290821

Hmmmh

Gary I have NEVER 'done' a notary, but my wife has!

Rick

Reply by Tish/CA on 6/2/09 4:54pm
Msg #290862

Re: Hmmmh

OK - just to get this topic back on track, killjoy that I am, I agree about about the the laziness and incompetence of some NSA's but for dang sake, can Title/lenders not get their forms up to date? There are some loan pkgs that I'm filling out a dozen loose certificates and these are also usually the pkgs that have four owner's affs and comp agmts, etc etc. UGHHhhhhhhh!!